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Thread: Malaria Claims

  1. #26
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sofa View Post
    Now. how big a say did the civil serpents have in picking the cheaper Lariam. ?
    None.
    There have been hundreds of questions put to the minister by the Provo scum TDs in the dail asking about this. Do a half arsed search in the thread about the dail questions and you will find how Lariam was selected and why.
    This conspiracy theory bollix does nobody any favours.

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  3. #27
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    I did read somewhere probabaly on the Action Larium FB page that Enlisted were give Larium while commissioned were given something more expensive and less contraversial.
    Time for another break I think......

  4. #28
    C/S Tango_Charlie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    I did read somewhere probabaly on the Action Larium FB page that Enlisted were give Larium while commissioned were given something more expensive and less contraversial.
    This rumour did the rounds in Chad as well but totally unsubstantiated and I honestly doubt there was any truth to it.

  5. #29
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    Rte Prime time is doing a special on Lariam this Monday night-

    The journal just did a piece about it, it's ripe for the - why do we need a Defence forces idiots and the Another army deafness lark clowns to spout shite and ill informed comments, I would ask you as a hedgie favour to post some pro DF comments. I know the two lads involved and they are good blokes all around.

    Thanks:

    http://www.thejournal.ie/no-plans-to...omment-1210707

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  7. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    I did read somewhere probabaly on the Action Larium FB page that Enlisted were give Larium while commissioned were given something more expensive and less contraversial.
    Doxycycline

    these were also issued in timor as numbers were smaller
    i think this will be bigger than the deafness claims

  8. #31
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaiser View Post
    Doxycycline

    these were also issued in timor as numbers were smaller
    i think this will be bigger than the deafness claims
    I don't think so, in fact there are only a small number of lads affected, and it's only a very small pool.

  9. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by hedgehog View Post
    I don't think so, in fact there are only a small number of lads affected, and it's only a very small pool.
    i dont know.. if dave o s goes to court and gets cash whats stopping every soldier from doing it??
    i,d say 40% of my unit have problems from using it

  10. #33
    Commandant Come-quickly's Avatar
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    It amazes me as someone who worked in and around litigation for a number of years that the DoD never established it's own internal (but evenhanded) compensation tribunal assessing cases in parallel to PIAB and the civil courts.

    That said, shame on anyone who uses this as an opportunity for Army bashing, the defence forces exist to underwrite our civil democracy and the relative luxury of livng in a first world country doesn't just exist unsupported.

    It's beyond belief the way Irish people will bitch and moan about their entitled, exceptional status yet begrudge legitimate compensation to people who provide a real service to all of us because they do it in a way that isn't pushed in the faces of the public every day.

    In fact there is a culture in the defence forces of underplaying the experience of operations. Something some other professions and state services could learn from.
    "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

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  12. #34
    Viking HavocIRL's Avatar
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    I had to take Lariam for 4 months. Having heard of how it affected people and seen firsthand what some of my mates went through on it I think that anyone who has been adversely affected by it deserves everything they get.

    Especially since the side effects were well known. I remember getting a mini brief from the doctor in Bricins who told us the side effects but stated that they were only going to affect us while we took them. This evidently wasn't true.

    The attitude that the DF takes towards these safety measures i.e. lariam, hearing protection is to go the cheap way first and hope it works out. I think it will take a few lawsuits for them to consider that 'Hey maybe if we go the cheap route we'll end up paying more money in the long run'

    And for the record Lariam has affected me. My short term memory is completely shot. I have trouble remembering names of people I've just met, things I was told within a few minutes of being told them. However this is a minor complaint and I can live with it. Its not worth going to court over especially when it has affected so many others so dramatically.

    Hope the DOD pays through the nose for their cheap, cost effective gambling with soldiers mental health.
    To close with and kill the enemy in all weather conditions, night and day and over any terrain

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  14. #35
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaiser View Post
    i dont know.. if dave o s goes to court and gets cash whats stopping every soldier from doing it??
    i,d say 40% of my unit have problems from using it
    Lets look at it in comparison to the hearing,

    Lariam was only issued for a few missions, there fore the pool is way way way reduced already, the symptoms just can't be I can't hear the telly or I am getting excessive wet dreams, there has to be more - so now we are down even further, then the screening process then those who have complained etc etc.

    There won't be any cases of some lad in an FCA unit in longer ford twice on the range shite, i would reckon this would be no more than 50 ALL ranks.

  15. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by hedgehog View Post
    Lets look at it in comparison to the hearing,

    Lariam was only issued for a few missions, there fore the pool is way way way reduced already, the symptoms just can't be I can't hear the telly or I am getting excessive wet dreams, there has to be more - so now we are down even further, then the screening process then those who have complained etc etc.

    There won't be any cases of some lad in an FCA unit in longer ford twice on the range shite, i would reckon this would be no more than 50 ALL ranks.
    i think your right on most to be honest
    but 50 all ranks ??
    my unit would be 50 % of that straight away and were a small unit by bn numbers
    eritrea chad liberia how long did these missions run for?

  16. #37
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    50 is only a guess mate, but it's going to be a very small amount.

  17. #38
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    Maybe we should look at this from another perspective, why did we get this drug.... so as not to get malaria . How many of us have died of malaria ..... None ! 1 million apparently per annum die of malaria in Africa..... Of the first 150 US Marines ashore in Liberia , over 50% got malaria and two died. Imagine the outcry ( never mind the claims) if we haven't got it and lost 3/4 guys per month dead to malaria . Doxy is not as effective against the sub Saharan strain of malaria .... And before anyone asks , yeah took both have had a few side effects , mad dreams and the like ..... But the best side effect was no malaria.

    Btw had heard a nasty DFTC rumour that the research for this prime time weren't great , calling to the families of soldiers who killed themselves ( was the lariam that made him/her do it , now talk into the camera) ....classy.

  18. #39
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Given there are recognised side effects, as with most medications . of it is prescribed to a preselected group with or without screenings there are going to be side effects.

    I wouldn't consider it negligence but would consider the DFs non recognition of the fact that side effects will occur to a percentage of any grouping taking the medication on DF advice, to be akin to burying its head in the sand.

    Some of the side effects may be enhanced by underlying factors which lay undetected by lack of comprehensive screening and would be identified by independant analysis.

    If there were contributory factors such as misuse of alcohol or mixing with other medicines or non prescribed drugs this should have been highlighted in a full screening process.

    I have been a user of prescribed medication for the past 16 years and have had many changes of types and dosage amounts related to my condition during that time.

    At all times , given the indefinite duration of the usage I had to be screened for side effects or long terms adverse effects. It was through this education that I became aware of my resistance or my lack there of and adverse reaction to certain meds.

    No one drug is suitable to all people and may affect different people in different ways, but there is a two way liability in the use of medication, that of the person prescribing the meds to monitor and screen those using the meds, and that responsibility of those using the meds to adhere to the advice that comes with them and to report any abnormality whether advertised or not to a suitable authority.

    From my experience with the DF in relation to medical matters, they tend to be very narrow minded in dealing with people who present with circumstances around mental health be it induced or congenital and tend to off load them rather than support them at the earliest oppertunity.

    In this case although the prescription of the medication may have been done with the best of intentions their ability to help with ant adverse effects has followed traditional DF lines.

    Deal with it after the events and when we have off loaded them

    May only be a small number but surely it would have been better to look after this small number while in service and after service than just dump them.

    Army doctors..I fcuking shit them"!
    Time for another break I think......

  19. #40
    Commander in Chief RoyalGreenJacket's Avatar
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    why is Larium such a big deal for certain individuals in the ONH?

    we have had a constant presence in Africa and other similar Malaria prone places for decades and tens of thousands of us have been put on Larium to protect us.

    i and nearly everyone i know was OK when we took Larium while we served in Africa, but yes there have been others with some side effects - but these were always explained to us in advance and were to be expected but i've never seen the collective effort there seems to be in the ONH to get compensation for it.

    i'm not aware of soldiers from any other army other than in Ireland trying to collectively gain compensation for using the drug, so is this Larium polava just an another compensation scam like the deafness one, or is it the unique Irish version of 'Gulf War Syndrome'?
    RGJ

    ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

    The Rifles

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  21. #41
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    1. There is no collective effort to gain compensation.

    Lariam affects a small percentage of users, and the effects are nothing from bad dreams to bad things, people everywhere have suffered from it.
    The correct way to deal with it is - screen to see who is affected and then place them on other treatments.

    What was happening is that the Defence Forces were using Lariam as a one stop fits all treatment, those who couldn't take it couldn't go over seas with the ensuing no career etc.

    This initially started with a simple request for proper screening and proper treatment for suffers, but the Minister lied and said this was in place. Once the polite stuff was ignored the suffers had no other option but to go o the Courts.

    There are some Soldiers from every Army suffering from this.

    To say lads suffering from the adverse affects of latiam is mere polava is akin to saying those PTSD suffers in WW1 suffered from lack of moral fibre.

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  23. #42
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    +1 On everything Hedgie just said.And just to reiterate THERE IS NO COLLECTIVE EFFORT TO GAIN COMPENSATION
    Comparing the DF's medical treatment of its soldiers to other Armies is like comparing apples and oranges.We are only trotting after other countries in the level of care we give our troops.Perhaps if the levels of care were the same as the BA's for example and the MA's actually gave a f**k about their troops welfare then troops would not need to use the recourse of the courts!
    Oh and BTW I have used Lariam aswell.Yes i did suffer nightmares etc while on it but thankfully that passed.However to this day my short term memory is iffy to say the least.Will I be suing??NO.Why?Because I have no way of saying wether the memory loss is a result of the Lariam or just the results of getting older.

    As for the "hearing scam".The MA's failed to look after their troops welfare as they had a duty of care to.Some lads suffered very significant NIHL.Others didn't.Did some jump on the gravy train.Hell yes.Human nature to do so when you see others getting payouts.Howver their was a very,very large chunk of the DF that didn't.
    We had to endure years of slagging from civvies because of the actions of those who jumped on the bandwagon.Thankfully that seems to be dying out though.
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

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  25. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
    why is Larium such a big deal for certain individuals in the ONH?

    we have had a constant presence in Africa and other similar Malaria prone places for decades and tens of thousands of us have been put on Larium to protect us.

    i and nearly everyone i know was OK when we took Larium while we served in Africa, but yes there have been others with some side effects - but these were always explained to us in advance and were to be expected but i've never seen the collective effort there seems to be in the ONH to get compensation for it.

    i'm not aware of soldiers from any other army other than in Ireland trying to collectively gain compensation for using the drug, so is this Larium polava just an another compensation scam like the deafness one, or is it the unique Irish version of 'Gulf War Syndrome'?
    There's no collective effort from Irish troops to get compensation, stop talking shite.

    The DF's issuing of Lairum to all troops is downright dangerous. There's no screening for suitability involved, there's no alternative... Don't want to take Larium? That's grand, don't get any Overseas trips and get ****ed out for not fulfilling your contractual obligations.

    I personally have never taken it so can't vouch for it personally, I've heard enough of lads experiences who have taken it to know I'm not looking forward to the day I do have to take it.

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  27. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
    why is Larium such a big deal for certain individuals in the ONH?

    we have had a constant presence in Africa and other similar Malaria prone places for decades and tens of thousands of us have been put on Larium to protect us.

    i and nearly everyone i know was OK when we took Larium while we served in Africa, but yes there have been others with some side effects - but these were always explained to us in advance and were to be expected but i've never seen the collective effort there seems to be in the ONH to get compensation for it.

    i'm not aware of soldiers from any other army other than in Ireland trying to collectively gain compensation for using the drug, so is this Larium polava just an another compensation scam like the deafness one, or is it the unique Irish version of 'Gulf War Syndrome'?
    We are not the only Army thats treated badly by its betters when things go wrong
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuzNoph56ss

  28. #45
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Ireland has a compo culture, often due to the actions/inactions of Government or other State agencies.

    Then there is the ambulance chasing legal profession.

    The Law Society had to get involved over the hearing claims.

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  30. #46
    Commander in Chief RoyalGreenJacket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sofa View Post
    We are not the only Army thats treated badly by its betters when things go wrong
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuzNoph56ss
    i think not - i've seen first hand many times the level of support our troops receive and it's some of the finest.

    warfare and welfare don't go well together but we do a damn fine job of trying to look after our blokes.
    RGJ

    ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

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  31. #47
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
    i think not - i've seen first hand many times the level of support our troops receive and it's some of the finest.

    warfare and welfare don't go well together but we do a damn fine job of trying to look after our blokes.
    I would question whether you understand what the term "Doing a damn fine job of trying to look after our blokes" actually means, the following links came from one google search using the parameters " British Soldiers problems and leaving"

    Our lads are shite but thankfully they aren't doing a damn fine job of looking after us.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...apheap-1142803

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/8585026.stm

    http://www.marketplace.org/topics/wo...e-finding-jobs

    http://www.veterans-aid.net/deportation/

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f19_1253953205

    http://www.hamlet-trust.org.uk/artic...al-health.html

    http://www.questia.com/library/1P2-5...ignores-mental

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...ms-father.html

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news...al-hell-823216

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/ma...ffences-report

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2006/ma...ender.military

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  33. #48
    Sergeant Major B Inman's Avatar
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    Primetime on RTE had a programme on the effects of Larium, input from retired medical officers from the UK and US Armed Forces.
    They had serious reservations about the use of Larium. Watch it on RTE player.
    http://www.rte.ie/player/ie/show/10151105/

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  35. #49
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Only caught the last 10 mins or so but were they suggesting an alternative drug that can only be taken for a month or two?

  36. #50
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    All they want is proper screening and alternative treatment for those who can't take Lariam, and treatment for those suffering the effects.

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