Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Ireland during WW2

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    He said that the common thought was that in the event of an invasion they would have to lock up a third of the army because 1/3 were anti british and would have supported a german invasion, 1/3 were pro-ally and would have supported an allied invasion and 1/3 didn't care who invaded they just wanted to fight someone.
    I think that this is f*cking hilarious... real typical mad maniac irish fighting men stuff!!! we would have torn each other apart and then ripped the invaders up too!!! the best bit tho is the... and 1/3 didn't care who invaded they just wanted to fight someone.
    lol:-patriot: :flagwave: :-patriot: :flagwave: :xlol: :flagwave: :-patriot:
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

    Comment


    • #17
      I dont think it would be very funny if it actually happened.
      If your not in bed by 4 o' clock it's time to go home!

      Comment


      • #18
        But it didn't so we can laugh:xlol:

        Comment


        • #19
          Just supposing we had trown our lot in with the Brits in 39 and bearing in mind that we had no offensive capability whatsoever and precious little in the way of a defensive capability and just supposing the Brits had asked the Germans for terms, where would we have been then seeing as how we had declared war on Germany without any cause whatsoever?

          Comment


          • #20
            If we had gone in in 39,most of the equipment we had would have been left on the beaches of dunkirk,and we would have ended up like the Poles and French,fighting under the flag of a country that was not ours,and more than likely our status as an independant nation would have suffered considerably. With our attentions elsewhere,possibly the IRA at the time would have siezed the initiative and continued where the civil war left off.
            And,40 years later,when the cold war had ended,and the US no longer required us as a submarine and airbase,The UK Puppet government would fall,and the country would again be immersed in a Balkan like struggle,leaving us more divided than ever.Protestant loyalists to the North,Catholic Loyalists in the east coast,Nationalists in the south west,and the west devoid of any industry,or economy,relying on the rest of the island for handouts to survive. Much of the west is populated with Refugees from the war who have settled in Ireland,unwanted elsewhere,with Romany ethnicity,in addition to a minority of Eastern European Jews,who are routinely persecuted for their faith,in a similar way to the Limerick Pogrom of 1902. 40% of the population do not consider English as their first language.

            Whether we like it or not,we had a lot to thank Dev for. His careful handling of Irish Neutrality,in the face of worldwide opposition was a brave step for a young nation. It shaped the nation of today,which all things considered,is not all bad.

            It could have been so much worse.


            Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

            Comment


            • #21
              Who has had their wheetabix then?
              Vert impressive reply goldie--have a nice day

              Comment


              • #22
                Occasionally i have moments of inspiration......then the server breaks and all is lost..
                Off to bed now for me.


                Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Ahhh Goldie,

                  Knew you wouldn't let me down ...

                  First of all, alternative history is a tough one to argue, but here I go anyway.

                  If we had gone in in 39,most of the equipment we had would have been left on the beaches of dunkirk,and we would have ended up like the Poles and French,fighting under the flag of a country that was not ours,and more than likely our status as an independant nation would have suffered considerably.

                  First of all, even the British kept most of their forces home, the forces deployed to France in 1940 were mostly the BEF, better equipped then the rest of the British Army, true, but not all, by any means.

                  Secondly, theres no way Ireland would have had any forces ready for deployment abroad in 1939-40. The equipment, training and even units did not exist at that time (and the British couldn't even equip their own army in 1939-40, let alone spare equipment for us). Chances are Irish troops would have been retained on island, with some being trained for deployment abroad. So no Dunkirk.

                  Lastly, French and Polish troops fought under their own flag, and at least they, even as 'conquered' nations, fought. We hid behind our mothers skirts. I think the only people on the planet that viewed 'neutrality' as an effective statement of independence lived in Ireland, everyone else regarded it as cowardice.

                  With our attentions elsewhere,possibly the IRA at the time would have siezed the initiative and continued where the civil war left off.

                  Possibly, but they lost the Civil War in fine style, and they'd had little support since then. The Germans would probably have come to their aid, but even then, I think events have shown that the Germans had enough on their plate.

                  And,40 years later,when the cold war had ended,and the US no longer required us as a submarine and airbase,The UK Puppet government would fall,and the country would again be immersed in a Balkan like struggle,leaving us more divided than ever

                  Whoa there Nelly, we've jumped 40 years, and theres a UK puppet Government? Thats a radical leap, and very pessimistic one at that. France fought alongside the UK and the US, was there a UK puppet Government there? De Gaulle anyone? Ditto for the Norwegians, Dutch, Belgians ... all fought the Germans, with considerable internal conflict also (Vichy France?) but none of them ended up being anything other than free independent countries.

                  How about this for an alternative view. We join the war in 1941 after Pearl Harbour; the Army receives US military aid, instead of 50,000 Irish people fighting under a UK flag, they fight under an Irish one. At least two Irish Divisions take part in the Normandy landings, fighting through France and Germany. Post war, the return of demobilised troops and the commercial boom caused by (significant) Marshall aid leads to irelands taking part in the 50s boom, agriculture is modernised and national industries grow as the country experiences the full range of 1950s and 1960s modernisation, joining the EC when it is formed in 1960. By 2004, the state has been in the top rank of small western European countries for 40 years, has been in NATO since its foundation and has won three World Cups ...

                  Devs 'careful handling' was calculated cowardice, nothing more, and was based on the (admittedly correct) assumption that we were not important enough for anyone to attack us. Not any great or even remotely honourable statement of independence.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    I think Aidan you are employing a great deal of hindsight here.The question posed was related to 1939 and the Brits had already betrayed Czechoslovakia.The countries you mentioned --Norway Holland and Belgium were netural until invaded.In fact Belgium refused to allow the French and BEF to advance into their territory until the Germans had launched their attack and what resistance did Denmark put up? and how did the Germans get into Norway?why by way of "neutral" Sweden.So lets put aside these notions of honour and courage.There was going to be a fight between the two big bullies on the block and there was a scatter and Dev was perhaps in the forefront of that and more power to him.
                    And at the end of all the fuss how was honour and courage served ? why by selling out Poland and the thousands of Poles who had fought alongside the Brits

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Well what about the scenario of the British keeping the treaty ports instead of handing them back in 1938? Would the Germans bombing Cobh have dragged us into the war then? After all the deliberate bombing of Campile didn't threaten our neutrality. Churchill famously said that the ports were of no immediate strategic concern to Britain but if they became so then they would not hesitate to retake them. Britain also helped us establish our army intelligence operations at the start of the war, and there was the agreed plan in the event of German invasion that a British General would command operations from the Grand Hotel Malahide once our Defence Forces were defeated, all food for thought.......
                      There seems to be something wrong with our bloody ships today Chatfield
                      Admiral of the Fleet David Beatty, 1st Earl Beatty GCB OM GCVO

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        I think Aidan you are employing a great deal of hindsight here

                        Yup, course I am. Others would call it history though ...

                        Thing is, things worked out like that, working from anything other than hindsight in this context would be nonsensical. I know how things worked out, hence I'm arguing for a different policy stance at the time (somewhich becomes more valid after 41, I'll grant you). To be even more blunt, trying to argue from an 'objective' perspective in this instance is practically impossible, mainly because reconstructing the precise context faced by decision makers at that time is impossible. We can guess, but thats all it can be.

                        Norway Holland and Belgium were netural until invaded

                        Which was my point, putting your head in the sand works right up until the point the first paratrooper lands on your soil, after that, you're f*&ked. There are times, and this was one, where taking a stand is of benefit and this was one. Mind you, when I say 'benefit', I speak not just of the immediate strategic benefit of having allies and a properly armed and trained military, but also the benefit of being fully involved in European reconstruction. But thats more hindsight for you.

                        There was going to be a fight between the two big bullies on the block and there was a scatter and Dev was perhaps in the forefront of that and more power to him.

                        Yes, lets applaud running away and pretending 'there is no big dog', another triumph for isolationism and ignorance. And the greatness of smallmindedness. Gotta love this country.

                        And at the end of all the fuss how was honour and courage served ? why by selling out Poland and the thousands of Poles who had fought alongside the Brits

                        And by liberating Western Europe and creating a stable system of democratic nations which has lasted and prospered to this day. While we hid behind a wall of censorship and 'pretend' neutrality. Yes, the Poles got shafted, and the Czechs and the Slovaks and the Hungarians. If you're in favour of unilaterally declaring war on the USSR in 1945-46, thats a whole other argument.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Thats rubbish we would never have won three world cups:D

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Perhaps not, but imagine it, if we won one, the right one, 66 for example ...

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Aidan I just think that using hindsight to condenm a decision is just a bit too previous.

                              As regards running away,where were the Yanks until 41?and as for pretending "there's no big dog"Dev was only too well aware that there was a pack of them.Any one of which would have sold us out if it suited their cause.

                              And as for honour why should we have trown our lot in with colonial and totalitarian states?To share in atrocities like the fire bombing of Dresden and Hamburg?

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                In fairness to neutrality look at the list of neutral nations at the start of the war. How many of them ditched their neutrality without being attacked?

                                We were lucky - largely down to geography.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X