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  • Sorry, I promised to revert on a point. I had said earlier ( and this is a blow by blow of a thread from 8 years ago as well ! ) that reservist's jobs were protected when called out.

    The Defence Forces ( Temporary Provisions ) act No.2, 1940 had a provision to have your employment held onto if on permanent service. See http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1940/...057.html#sec57

    The Act of 1954 ( The Defence Act, the one we all know and love ) , repealed this

    The electronic Irish Statute Book (eISB) comprises the Acts of the Oireachtas (Parliament), Statutory Instruments, Legislation Directory, Constitution and a limited number of pre-1922 Acts.



    So; we had employment protection legislation until 1954, and it was lost/done away with. Awesome.

    I'd forgotten this; sorry for the factual error in the post above.
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Saab View Post
      Oh and S&S I am very surprised that your boss/customer would be asking the government to force him to keep your job???????????
      No Saab, his point was that if I was called out for anything, whether it's bad weather, civil unrest, foot and mouth, Mongolian hoarde invasion, solar flare destroying the power grid, whatever; he sees no reason why he should allow me to swan off to the call of the DF, when he's paying my company for me to do my job. If I'm not available for work, I'm in breach of my contractual obligation and therefore he'd be well within his right to replace me if I'm no longer seen as reliable.

      I work on 24/7 on call rota as part of a three man team. I work towards set SLAs. My skill set and knowledge of the site I work on means I can't be replaced on a short notice ad hoc basis. Particularly if the other guys are away on leave or resting off from out of hours work. I imagine for many engineers that this is the same in their job.

      So yes Saab, the Government would need to force my employer by means of legislation to hold my job open for me if they ever expected to use me as a contingency military resource.

      It's not a matter of just sitting here whinging for the sake of it. If you're happy to run along and play soldiers at your own expense in the middle of the working week, good for you. Most sensible people who don't have such a zealous hobbyist mentality to their Reserve service would beg to differ. Especially if they're being paid more than their CO in their civilian professional capacity, and then being expected to work for free or on Pte/NCO wages while at the risk of jeopardising their career and living standards.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by SwiftandSure View Post
        So yes Saab, the Government would need to force my employer by means of legislation to hold my job open for me if they ever expected to use me as a contingency military resource.
        No point in quoting the whole lot.

        When you signed up for the RDF did you ignore or just not believe the bit that said you might be called to serve?

        The fact that no one has ever been called is irrelevant.
        The fact that in recent times the grat was substantially increased is also irrelevant.

        When you joined you did so on the understanding that someday you might be called to serve. But you clearly are not. Stop banging on about employment protection, it wasn't there when you signed up and you aint going to get it.
        So you have just stated you are not available or willing to serve if so requested. Thus you and anyone else in your position has no business in the RDF. You are, as you put it, just playing soldiers. You may take the game seriously but you are not available to do what you signed up for i.e. volunteer your services when required and be ready to be called upon when needed.

        danno, this is about working for free.
        The ATCA notion is a fabricated one. What was said is that we could be used in that way not we will. Also the VFM said that we should do more voluntary hours but these should be service hours. Just like the GR. They do training and then they do service. The stand along side full members of the force when required.

        The first sign of a suggestion that the RDF is being asked to actually do something other than train for the sake of training and the moaning starts. Not just from the RDF but also the PDF with the "they are taking our jobs"
        So now it's pay back time!!
        No more gung ho I wan-a-be a soldier in gucci gear clubs
        No more drinking clubs
        No more shooting clubs
        It's train to serve and serve when required.
        If you don't like it good-bye


        FMolloy, How many gardai lost jobs or pay because the GR are there?
        Last edited by Saab; 5 December 2012, 14:02.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Saab View Post
          When you signed up for the RDF did you ignore or just not believe the bit that said you might be called to serve?

          When you joined you did so on the understanding that someday you might be called to serve. But you clearly are not. Stop banging on about employment protection, it wasn't there when you signed up and you aint going to get it.

          How many joned up from school/college when employment protection wasnt an issue for them then?

          The RDF will be called out when the PDF cannot handle the job on their own, and it will be a cold icey morning in hell before the PDF will ever say they require the assistance of reservists to be called out.
          You're even dumber than I tell people

          You might have been infected but you never were a bore

          Comment


          • If you want to be unemployable seek employment protection!

            Comment


            • I see that both sides are playin to the tune that the VFM was written for; a credible way of getting rid of the reserve. In reality such an underhand way was not required, the vast majority of this country do not give a toss about the reserve, this includes a substantial number of PDF people, I'll go one step further, the vast majority of the people of this country don't give a toss about the entire defense forces and would not miss 'em if it was all wound up in this afternoons budget. People outside the country; now that's a different matter...
              What is now required is proper leadership within the RDF who are going to sit down with the PDF and find ways to drive forwards with what remains of the Reserve and start finding ways to make a future for the service which will incorporate it at levels where it can continue training [thereby remaining a reserve], and ways that it can be usefully used as required, when needed, in so-called "unarmed" roles at first, eventually when the organization shows a willingness and ability to preform these roles [this may not even include actually doing anything] then it is likely in the future[with proper leadership and planning] that "armed'' roles might be forthcoming.
              What is now wanted is an end to the bickering including that [IMHO] stage managed RDFRA publication of that document, and the leadership to start coming up with ideas, instead of recriminations.
              Simply put: beat the bean counter bastards at their own game instead of helping the filth.
              "We will hold out until our last bullet is spent. Could do with some whiskey"
              Radio transmission, siege of Jadotville DR Congo. September 1961.
              Illegitimi non carborundum

              Comment


              • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                If you want to be unemployable seek employment protection!
                I think in the context of what is now occurring, employment protection can wait until the reserve has shown itself as re-established as a useable military service, in the meantime while getting involved or establishing a culture of being available for volunteer work, it is not needed.
                Once the reserve has made it clear that in addition to training, it can handle volunteer work, then work which would need employer protection may come along, that is the only reasonable bargaining chip the reserve has.
                "We will hold out until our last bullet is spent. Could do with some whiskey"
                Radio transmission, siege of Jadotville DR Congo. September 1961.
                Illegitimi non carborundum

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Turkey View Post
                  ways that it can be usefully used as required, when needed, in so-called "unarmed" roles at first, eventually when the organization shows a willingness and ability to preform these roles [this may not even include actually doing anything] then it is likely in the future[with proper leadership and planning] that "armed'' roles might be forthcoming.
                  What is now wanted is an end to the bickering including that [IMHO] stage managed RDFRA publication of that document, and the leadership to start coming up with ideas, instead of recriminations.
                  Simply put: beat the bean counter bastards at their own game instead of helping the filth.
                  Agree with what you said, but seriously, WTF is all this unarmed crap about?

                  the TA train for roughly the same amount of time as we do and are armed.

                  we are primarily a military ARMED force and not a poxy unarmed GR.

                  sure we will HAVE to do the volunteer unarmed stuff and yes there are issues for some people about serving alongside PDF members who are probably earning a lot of cash for doing the same job that we will do for free.

                  For me, if I was available and asked to provide my services in a national emergency be it weather or anything else then I would have no problem, i would take time off work as IVE ALWAYS HAD TO DO FOR CAMP ETC. I DID volunteer to do so.

                  Yes its a kick in the scroats losing the grat, I DO have to pay for petrol and other sundry costs to get to and from training and for "gucci" gear as not everything I require is issued but the poxy country is going up the swanny and the coffers are empty.

                  But as far as im concerned it doesnt take a huge leap to train for and take part in armed support roles. That just throws aside all of the weapons training we've had up to now. You must be Joking. Its not a shooting or drinking club to me NOR i would guess to most of those left in the service.

                  Its a patriotic duty which I have volunteered for, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree and the DF as a whole started out as a poorly trained volunteer force, they should get their collective heads out of each others a$$es and start making use - proper use - of the reserves by GIVING US A F**KING DEFINED ROLE AND MISSION instead of the VFM airy fairy w@nk that was shat out last month.
                  "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
                  "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

                  Comment


                  • Morpheus, the only thing I can see at the moment is that in order to save the reserve, we now need ideas and leadership, I have neither the brains or the ability to provide either, but change must happen and there is not much time...
                    "We will hold out until our last bullet is spent. Could do with some whiskey"
                    Radio transmission, siege of Jadotville DR Congo. September 1961.
                    Illegitimi non carborundum

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                      If you want to be unemployable seek employment protection!
                      I disagree. EP with the appropriate regulation, incentives and employer/DF liaison can make employing a Reservist an attractive proposition. Unfortunately, the backing isn't there by either Government or MA to explore the possibilities.

                      Originally posted by Saab View Post
                      When you signed up for the RDF did you ignore or just not believe the bit that said you might be called to serve?
                      I joined because I moved into a new town, saw an ad in the paper for the RDF and concluded that given my previously military experience I might be of some use there and that it would be a good way of meeting like minded people.

                      Granted, I'm coming in with the mindset that soldiering is a professional vocation and one of the noblest means to serve your country; little did I expect that it would be so poorly supported by the public, the DF, and the Government. Nor did I expect the Dad's Army, drinking/shooting culture to be so rife in the organisation. But through all of that, there is a core of people looking to make the RDF what it should be, and that's a viable Reserve component of the DF.

                      I knew what I volunteered for, when I volunteered.

                      But here's the reality. I am an ex-Army regular. I work in building and servicing telecoms infrastructure. I'm a Pte in the Reserve. I hold a 154 to drive the 4x4s and minibus and I have committed myself to any and all training that's been made available to me if I'm available to do so, far exceeding the minimum attendance required of me. Come the re-org, do you think someone with my experience and credentials should be pushed out of the RDF because it doesn't fit into your airy-fairy boyscout charity case view of the Reserve? Because I'd rather do my job and be paid to provide for my family than volunteer to be dicking about in the snow with the DF, unpaid, probably without the appropriate serviceable PPE (e.g. wetgear, gloves, boots) to do so. Do you think anyone with a civilian profession or career shouldn't be retained in the RDF because it might impact on their RDF commitments?

                      No thanks. I joined to solider. I've done my fair share of shít jobs in uniform, so the novelty of volunteering to do it for free while being treated like a 2nd class council worker doesn't appeal to me. If that's your wet dream of soldiering Saab, crack on buddy. I'm sure you'll look dead class shovelling snow or filling sandbags for free in your uniform when you could otherwise have been at work. Lucky you for having such an understanding boss and family, you'd be the exception rather than the rule.

                      In the meantime, unless there's mass call up of the Reserve to perform the role it actually trains for; I'll stick to volunteering my time when it suits my work schedule and family commitments, because without employment protection it won't be the other way around.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Turkey View Post
                        I think in the context of what is now occurring, employment protection can wait until the reserve has shown itself as re-established as a useable military service, in the meantime while getting involved or establishing a culture of being available for volunteer work, it is not needed.
                        Once the reserve has made it clear that in addition to training, it can handle volunteer work, then work which would need employer protection may come along, that is the only reasonable bargaining chip the reserve has.
                        How can you realistically gauge the availability of the Reserve without Employment Protection?

                        Basically, you're saying that we'll judge the need for employment protection by assessing the availability of those who clearly don't need employment protection as they are already available to volunteer time freely.

                        All that would happen there is that another bullshít spin report saying that the RDF failed to produce enough volunteers when asked, and therefore employment protection legislation would be wasted on them. When the reality is that many would willingly support the DF in its endeavours, but not at the cost of their civilian livelihoods.

                        Would it not be a better solution to draft EP legislation and then assess if the conditions of that proposed legislation would be enough to increase the mobilisation of the Reserve?

                        Comment


                        • Here's a good place to start.

                          1. Wadi anyone who describes their involvement as a hobby.

                          2. Wadi anyone who doesn't pass ITs next year without a major medical reason I.e. broken bones

                          3. Define a substantive role for the next three years and train towards it. Doesn't matter if it's preparation for the fantasian invasion or not as long as it is a coherent and uniquely military skillset.

                          4. Cross/Burn all other bridges as and when you get to them.

                          I'm curious as to what ill effects people expect to suffer from getting fitter and better in order to stay relevant.
                          "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Come-quickly View Post
                            Here's a good place to start.
                            I'm curious as to what ill effects people expect to suffer from getting fitter and better in order to stay relevant.
                            Agreed.

                            It only makes you healthier!

                            I do cardio (7km+) 3 times a week
                            Im in the gym 3-4 nights a week
                            I do it for two reasons...
                            1. Im an NCO and need to set an example to those that im responsible for, plus the need to carry same equipment as PDF without cribbing. All bar two of my RDF colleagues are in gyms but all are involved in some sort of fitness regime.
                            2. I like fitness and keeping in shape, plus i love the ladies in spandex in the gym.
                            "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
                            "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

                            Comment


                            • Ok so we get employment protection ..... do we also get family/significant other/life/hobbies/sports protection!?

                              In my previous unit I did 4/5 training parades and at least 1 weekend a month (there was something on practically every weekend).... we all have lives as well !

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                                Ok so we get employment protection ..... do we also get family/significant other/life/hobbies/sports protection!?
                                Be honest. Are you high??

                                Employment Protection enables other countries to send Reservists into combat operations in foreign fields. Without it here in ireland, an RDF Bde can barely field a Coy in Wicklow for the assessments.

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