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  1. #1
    Sergeant Major
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    Negligent Discharge

    whats the fine for a "ND"

  2. #2
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    What section are you charged under?

  3. #3
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaiser View Post
    whats the fine for a "ND"
    There is no fixed penalty for it - though anyone who is found guilty of an ND should be made dig a grave and write a Dear Mrs Dead persons mother type letter at the very least.
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

  4. #4
    Interested Observer Duffer's Avatar
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    Whats ND

  5. #5
    C/S
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    Negligent Discharge of a weapon.

  6. #6
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hedgehog View Post
    There is no fixed penalty for it - though anyone who is found guilty of an ND should be made dig a grave and write a Dear Mrs Dead persons mother type letter at the very least.
    This one time in the glen saw it done, very well!

    Bearer party, pall bearers, widow, grave etc

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  8. #7
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    usually a shoeing from the people you've just scared the shit out of!......as for mock burials, Private Butt was once found dead on parade, during a session of digging a GPMG trench, of all things, and a gang of us had to bury him (in a matchbox) with the full drill.

    regards
    GttC

  9. #8
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    I have heard that a person can have an ND in the sack
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

  10. #9
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    I'm fairly sure ejaculating in a public toilet constitutes an ND too.

  11. #10
    Flanders Pidgeon Murderer Captain Edmund Blackadder's Avatar
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    Only if you get it on yourself.
    Aut viam inveniam aut faciam.

  12. #11
    Sergeant Major
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    lads i didnt start this thread well not on purpose anyway?
    i posted the remark as a joke on another thread when someone said they "hit the dislike button by mistake been neglegent"
    hence the tongue out figure!!!
    i would never put a tongue out figure with anything to do with an ND as i view it as a most serious offence
    and an offence the df at times is happier turning a blind eye to, bar some crease job in the glen and we all forget about it after
    facts are ND,S can cost lives

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  14. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaiser View Post
    facts are ND,S can cost lives
    and have done, Private Peadar O Flatharta being one of our own examples

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  16. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by midnight oil View Post
    and have done, Private Peadar O Flatharta being one of our own examples
    very true
    there,s a few more cases of injuries to

  17. #14
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    What section covers it out out of interest? Conduct prejudicial to the ...... ?

  18. #15
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    it is a section 168 offence, I will let you look up for yourself what the max penalties are

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  20. #16
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kaiser View Post
    very true
    there,s a few more cases of injuries to
    One happened in Haulbowline, about 30 years ago, cost one man his life, and the orderly officer, who was nowhere near, and totally unaware of proceedings, his career.

  21. #17
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Witnessed two officers in one week having NDs , one a rifle the other a pistol..in the guard room , some years ago, no charges laid. Disgraceful.
    Just visiting

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  23. #18
    not dead yet ollie's Avatar
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    Saw a capt. let off an ND on the ranges in Kilworth once, he was on the firing point but facing to the rear when he had a slip of the finger , scared the crap out of everyone and the CS stopped his his cussing when he saw the culprit
    Anyone need a spleen ?

  24. #19
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    since were goin with this thread i,d say everyone here has seen a ND
    i,ve seen them on the range and overseas and if i think long and hard possible duties to
    can i remember the "firer" not in all cases can i remember the punishment not any

  25. #20
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    More often than not the ND has been done by those beyond reproach. i.e Officers.

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  27. #21
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    Every officer I have ever known that has had an ND has wound up in front of the GOC. Doesnt mean the troops got told about it though and rightly so IMO.

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  29. #22
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by midnight oil View Post
    Every officer I have ever known that has had an ND has wound up in front of the GOC. Doesnt mean the troops got told about it though and rightly so IMO.
    I wish I could say the same,
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

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  31. #23
    Non Temetis Messor The real Jack's Avatar
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    I've seen RDF & PDF (non cadre) ND with a blank, nothing was done. 1x RDF officer, 1x RDF NCO and 2x PDF PTE.
    Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

  32. #24
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    NDs are a real nightmare especially when working with guys who have been trained outside of the DF , Standards of handling and firearms ( Not just service weapons , vary a lot.) Have seen one leg taken off by a 7.62 , was also in an office when a local security twat let off a makarov , Oops and was in a vehicle when a 40mm grenade was fired ND from an M79 , by a 12-14 yr . lots of ear ringing but grenade did not detonate , good internal safety features, Needless to say said 14 yr old almost lost his anal virginity by the same M79. For the DF a statutory 28 days in spike or wherever it is now should be in place for all ranks, A touch of flogging would also be appropraite but ....... its the only way to reduce it. While I appreciate that firearms training for soldiers must concentrate on service weapons I think it is also very important that soldiers are provided training in theory and practice of firearms in general so as they can take any firearms and be fairly confident in handling it . Use and familiarity with other types of firearms should be a requirement especially for infantry, Cav, Arty Units.

    I think the general level of service firearms handling is good in the DF . In my time my unit were probably always on ATCP duties and we even had the gustav which was a real worry at times. I think the only ND I heard of and cannot verify was a burst from the twin mags of a M3 , another OOPS , and hopefully smiles of relief or oh F....

  33. #25
    Lt General apod's Avatar
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    I dunno if i agree with Officers being discipline behind closed doors for offences such as ND's.Minor offences yes.ND's no.The premise being that if said officers punishment is known to all than it would serve as an example to their subordinates that"If that can happen to an officer,imagine what they would do to us!".IMHO that could act as a deterrent.
    The modern Irish soldier is better educated,trained and equipped then any any other generation that has gone before.


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

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