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  • #31
    I have personally witnessed 3 ND's in my career. One by a young 2-star private (with a blank) which resulted in a charge. ND's 2 and 3 were by a junior officer and a senior NCO respectively, on the same trip overseas, both witnessed by a superior, and neither one resulted in a charge. The precedent on that trip had been set when the YO got away with it I think.

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    • #32
      Well, with regard to Officer punishments, I know from experience that when officers were charged and awarded punishments, it was not published in ROs but the "word" was soon out, anyway. One individual, a pilot, was grounded for a year after an incident. As for NDs, they should always be pounced upon and charged against, as should any messing about with firearms. We had one NCO in the Depot who always went mad, and rightly so, if he heard fellas playing with bolts or magazines, as young guys are inclined to do. He was not shy about bollocking anyone who digressed, even YOs. People learned to treat weapons with respect.

      regards
      GttC

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      • #33
        Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post

        ND or not, officer punishments tend not to be published for the scruff to read but to tend to leak out.
        Or don't find out as said officer is banished to a unit that is as far away from where they want to be based as is possible.

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        • #34
          True. I can think of at least two "party hat" Officers who ended up in the Don, as an alternative to getting the shove. The Don often became the final resting place of the careers of those who were regarded as lost causes. An ancient tradition in all militaries, transfer out the losers and the deadbeats.

          regards
          GttC

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          • #35
            Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
            Well, with regard to Officer punishments, I know from experience that when officers were charged and awarded punishments, it was not published in ROs but the "word" was soon out, anyway. One individual, a pilot, was grounded for a year after an incident. As for NDs, they should always be pounced upon and charged against, as should any messing about with firearms. We had one NCO in the Depot who always went mad, and rightly so, if he heard fellas playing with bolts or magazines, as young guys are inclined to do. He was not shy about bollocking anyone who digressed, even YOs. People learned to treat weapons with respect.
            Totally agree... I can remember almost hopping off a clown who used to be in our mob, on the range one day. After having warned troops the training night before the
            shoot NOT to hold the cocking handle while releasing the action forward on the Steyr (those in the know will know the consequences of doing this, I'm not elaborating here), this
            gobshite did it three times with the expected result. He subsequently enlisted in the PDF. Hopefully, they knocked the habit out of him there... :(
            "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

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            • #36
              Officers should be flogged if they have NDs
              agreed!

              True. I can think of at least two "party hat" Officers who ended up in the Don
              I can think of one or two flyboys who ended their days in line units because of their mishaps in aeroplanes.

              I've seen a DE officer treated to a pair of NDs because he failed to understand what he was doing while dismounting a pair of sentries and wouldn't listen to the advice of the pair.

              Controlled NDS shall we call it.


              I trained a young fella many years ago who had an ND with an FN, very stupid indeed and fatigue played a big part in it as he had been on the go for 24hrs prior to the incident.

              Someone wanted him charged but I refused on the grounds that I was equally responsible for not being aware of how knackered he was and failing to ensure that he had been fully monitored while in possesion of the weapons given the limited training he had.

              My point being that over familiarity with weapons often leads to incidents due to overconfidence and failure to realise how little experience and understanding others have of weapons.We go through drills, mechanisms etc, but do we explain how accidents such as NDS happen and the possible outcomes.

              The guy in question went on to be a sergeant in the DF and never forgot the incident, lesson learned!

              Goldies post on the ND in the NS where a guy was killed reminded me of how NDs occur with people who are not familiar with weapons in fine detail and fail to understand how or why NDs can take place. The case in point was around a pistol and the use of a magazine to unload it,tragic point but one that clearly showed a lack of understanding of how the pistol worked.

              I replicated the cause on the range to show people how an accident could happen in exactly the same circumstances, being able to recall and incident and show how to prevent it brought an awareness to the situation.

              Its probably something that should be paid more attention to during training rather than just beasting those who carry it out, regardless of rank.
              Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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              • #37
                people get careless around weapons, especially installed weapons, such as car or aircraft guns in mounts, a lot of which are electrically fired. Might be no harm for a DF campaign about weapon care, handling and attention especially given the proliferation of remote/electrically fired weapons in the DF.

                regards
                GttC

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
                  people get careless around weapons, especially installed weapons, such as car or aircraft guns in mounts, a lot of which are electrically fired. Might be no harm for a DF campaign about weapon care, handling and attention especially given the proliferation of remote/electrically fired weapons in the DF.

                  regards
                  GttC
                  I hope it has the care of hearing video music.
                  I knew a simple soldier boy.....
                  Who grinned at life in empty joy,
                  Slept soundly through the lonesome dark,
                  And whistled early with the lark.

                  In winter trenches, cowed and glum,
                  With crumps and lice and lack of rum,
                  He put a bullet through his brain.
                  And no one spoke of him again.

                  You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
                  Who cheer when soldier lads march by,
                  Sneak home and pray you'll never know
                  The hell where youth and laughter go.

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                  • #39
                    Seen an ND that almost knocked someone out.


                    The guy standing along side the person who had the ND, turned and flattened him.
                    No more NDs

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                    • #40
                      The near miss with the cadets could well be considered a ND scenario depending on the actual circumstances.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by danno View Post
                        The near miss with the cadets could well be considered a ND scenario depending on the actual circumstances.

                        MOD: The other thread on that subject has been closed while a live investigation takes place.No further posts on this matter people.Only warning.
                        "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

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