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  • #16
    Originally posted by kaiser View Post
    very true
    there,s a few more cases of injuries to
    One happened in Haulbowline, about 30 years ago, cost one man his life, and the orderly officer, who was nowhere near, and totally unaware of proceedings, his career.


    Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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    • #17
      Witnessed two officers in one week having NDs , one a rifle the other a pistol..in the guard room , some years ago, no charges laid. Disgraceful.
      Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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      • #18
        Saw a capt. let off an ND on the ranges in Kilworth once, he was on the firing point but facing to the rear when he had a slip of the finger , scared the crap out of everyone and the CS stopped his his cussing when he saw the culprit
        Anyone need a spleen ?

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        • #19
          since were goin with this thread i,d say everyone here has seen a ND
          i,ve seen them on the range and overseas and if i think long and hard possible duties to
          can i remember the "firer" not in all cases can i remember the punishment not any

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          • #20
            More often than not the ND has been done by those beyond reproach. i.e Officers.


            Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

            Comment


            • #21
              Every officer I have ever known that has had an ND has wound up in front of the GOC. Doesnt mean the troops got told about it though and rightly so IMO.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by midnight oil View Post
                Every officer I have ever known that has had an ND has wound up in front of the GOC. Doesnt mean the troops got told about it though and rightly so IMO.
                I wish I could say the same,
                Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
                Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
                The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
                The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
                The best lack all conviction, while the worst
                Are full of passionate intensity.

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                • #23
                  I've seen RDF & PDF (non cadre) ND with a blank, nothing was done. 1x RDF officer, 1x RDF NCO and 2x PDF PTE.
                  Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

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                  • #24
                    NDs are a real nightmare especially when working with guys who have been trained outside of the DF , Standards of handling and firearms ( Not just service weapons , vary a lot.) Have seen one leg taken off by a 7.62 , was also in an office when a local security twat let off a makarov , Oops and was in a vehicle when a 40mm grenade was fired ND from an M79 , by a 12-14 yr . lots of ear ringing but grenade did not detonate , good internal safety features, Needless to say said 14 yr old almost lost his anal virginity by the same M79. For the DF a statutory 28 days in spike or wherever it is now should be in place for all ranks, A touch of flogging would also be appropraite but ....... its the only way to reduce it. While I appreciate that firearms training for soldiers must concentrate on service weapons I think it is also very important that soldiers are provided training in theory and practice of firearms in general so as they can take any firearms and be fairly confident in handling it . Use and familiarity with other types of firearms should be a requirement especially for infantry, Cav, Arty Units.

                    I think the general level of service firearms handling is good in the DF . In my time my unit were probably always on ATCP duties and we even had the gustav which was a real worry at times. I think the only ND I heard of and cannot verify was a burst from the twin mags of a M3 , another OOPS , and hopefully smiles of relief or oh F....

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                    • #25
                      I dunno if i agree with Officers being discipline behind closed doors for offences such as ND's.Minor offences yes.ND's no.The premise being that if said officers punishment is known to all than it would serve as an example to their subordinates that"If that can happen to an officer,imagine what they would do to us!".IMHO that could act as a deterrent.
                      "Let us be clear about three facts. First, all battles and all wars are won in the end by the infantryman. Secondly, the infantryman always bears the brunt. His casualties are heavier, he suffers greater extremes of discomfort and fatigue than the other arms. Thirdly, the art of the infantryman is less stereotyped and far harder to acquire in modern war than that of any other arm." ------- Field Marshall Wavell, April 1945.

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                      • #26
                        An incident I remember clearly was when I had just marched the platoon on to the stores, everyone signing out rifles,others fell back in, the weather was torrential rain so I said fall out and get cover, not 60 seconds layer bang , one of the guard let of a ND right over were in had the troops fell in. Close call.

                        What happened after it is hear you say? She was brought to speak to see DF councillor to she if she was ok. ....same one didn't give a ****

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by midnight oil View Post
                          Every officer I have ever known that has had an ND has wound up in front of the GOC. Doesnt mean the troops got told about it though and rightly so IMO.
                          The issue/problem will never get sorted if it is being hushed up,no stats are being generated and the DF is wide open to claims of having a systemic problem by angry next of kin.

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                          • #28
                            One time, the guard was being changed in Baldonnel and it was lashing rain so everybody crowded into the guardhouse. One beaut, who particularly liked to hold his FN vertical, beirut-style, let a round off, which ricochetted ceiling-floor-ceiling in the centre of the crowded room. For a second or two after the banging, you could have heard a pin drop, then the gun was removed at fist and boot point from the idiot's grasp. I think at the time the fine was a pound, but I'd say he's forgotten the fine by now but not the shoeing...

                            regards
                            GttC

                            ND or not, officer punishments tend not to be published for the scruff to read but to tend to leak out.

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                            • #29
                              I think there are different tpyes or causes for NDs, In normal circumstances ATCP , guards etc weapons are carried loaded but not cocked and locked. For an ND to happen in those circumstances implies that the guys is either messing about with the weapon or does not know how to handle the weapon and has somehow inadvertently put a round up the breach when loading the rifle. (( How I dont know)
                              On the other hand when carrying cocked and perhaps with safety off ( or as it will be pointed out to me the change lever in the firing position) an ND can happen especially when the nerves are jangly and you are bricking it. This can happen and is understandable to a degree. ..
                              Service rifles are usually simple straight forward and fairly safe devices , pistols a bit more complicated, ( try carry an 1911 cocked and locked all the time,) sub machine guns, a mixture, some are death traps but thay are quickly disappearing from the scene, Machine guns and the like very dependent on mtce and how tehy are handles.
                              Grenades etc , Just dont have any near u unless u know where they came from , lets say the reliabilty of some "curry falvoured stuff " is so questionable that u are safer without them..
                              Officers should be flogged if they have NDs , just think how much has been invested in them and then they cannot safely handle a weapon.

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post

                                ND or not, officer punishments tend not to be published for the scruff to read but to tend to leak out.
                                They are always published in R/Os. How many people read R/Os is a different issue

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