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Thread: Timoney

  1. #1
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    Timoney

    US marines will put Irish troop carriers to the test

    AN Irish-developed armour-ed vehicle has been selected for testing by the US Marine Corps which is seeking nearly 600 new armoured personnel carriers.

    The 8X8 Terrex armoured vehicle was developed in Ireland by world leaders in vehicle and suspension design, Timoney Technology of Navan, for the Singapore Technologies Kinetics company.

    One of the most modern armoured vehicles in production, it has exceptional mobility and agility using a Timoney suspension system.

    The vehicle, which has a V shaped hull to protect against mine blasts, can carry up to 14 troops or 11 tonnes of cargo internally.

    It underwent initial trials in Ireland and the UK before being shipped to Singapore for evaluation.

    It is now produced there and the Singapore Army has bought 135 vehicles, while another version is produced in Turkey by Otokar.

    The vehicle is one of four that has been selected by the US Marine Corps and manufacturers have been given $3.5m (€2.6m) each to deliver a vehicle for testing which will run until August 2013.

    The marines need 579 personnel carriers to fill the gap left by another vehicle – the so-called expeditionary fighting vehicle – which was cancelled after $3bn (€2.25bn) was spent in developmental funding.

    The contenders in the trials are Lockheed Martin with their Finnish Patria vehicle; Bae Systems with a 24-tonne Italian Superlav; General Dynamics; and Science Applications International Corp, a US-based company which is putting forward the Terrex vehicle.

    Timoney Technology has vast experience in designing armoured vehicles and suspension systems.

    One of its most successful has been the Bushmaster troop carrier, with hundreds produced in Australia by a licensee.

    The vehicle has saved the lives of countless soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan as it was one of the first designed to withstand mine and improvised explosive device (IED) attacks.

    Timoney, which designed and built armoured vehicles for the Irish Army in the Seventies, is also involved in developing the Crusher unmanned vehicle for the US military.

    Last year, Singapore Technologies Engineering increased its shareholding in Timoney Holdings from 25pc to 27.4pc.
    http://www.independent.ie/national-n...t-3350354.html

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  3. #2
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    Interesting article from Shepard today: https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/l...behind-terrex/

    Good to see Timoney is still building, even if only prototypes, in Navan.

  4. #3
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    Hopefully they make a bid for the proposed APC replacement. It would be nice to have irish soldiers operating overseas from Irish designed APCs.
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    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    The MOWAGs may not necessarily be replaced

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    Non Temetis Messor The real Jack's Avatar
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    There's a good few companies that would be able to produce sub assemblies here if we wanted to, our religious following of EU tender rules kinda rules out any industrial offsets. Politicians seem to think that call centres and financial services companies are "industry" when they don't make a ****ing thing and can move to another tax haven at the drop of a hat.
    Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

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    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The real Jack View Post
    There's a good few companies that would be able to produce sub assemblies here if we wanted to, our religious following of EU tender rules kinda rules out any industrial offsets.
    http://ec.europa.eu/internal_market/...offsets_en.pdf

    There could have been plenty of work from offsets into Irish based industry but unlike other EU countries Ireland never went down that road. Unfortunately when they did there was political interference and legal action resulted.

    Politicians seem to think that call centres and financial services companies are "industry" when they don't make a ****ing thing and can move to another tax haven at the drop of a hat.
    They are .... tertiary/service industry, the higher proportion the more developed your economy

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    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    werent' the old ones a bag of ham .... the Piranha design is fairly std these days ?
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    they may have been shite but the design sold well enough; Behrmann built variations on the theme as the BDX. Timoney probably made more money on suspension design and sales than any from AFV sales.

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    BQMS EUFighter's Avatar
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    I would love to see again Irish soldiers again in Irish design APC's. The Terrex has made it onto the final shortlist for the USMC contract and has a good chance to win. But it is not only there that Timoney have provided the design there is also the CM32 family of afv's built in Taiwan. The mobile gun variant would be a great replacement for the retired AML90's or?

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    BQMS EUFighter's Avatar
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    Some détails on the often over-looked CM32 (especially its price)

    http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product2671.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    The MOWAGs may not necessarily be replaced
    If they are still in service as long as the Panhard APCs were I will be very disappointed.
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    Lt General Bravo20's Avatar
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    At a Euro 1 million plus a mid-life upgrade per vehicle you can bet your ass they will be in service until they fall apart

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    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    At a Euro 1 million plus a mid-life upgrade per vehicle you can bet your ass they will be in service until they fall apart
    Yep ...
    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

  20. #14
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Note WP15 doesn't say they will be replaced (necessarily)

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  22. #15
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    Is WP15 your new bible?
    6.3
    The current fleet of Armoured Personnel Carriers (APCs) and associated variants are essential for a broad range of operations. In order to ensure continued force protection, a study is currently underway to identify whether a life-extension programme, replacement programme or another alternative, is the most cost effective option..
    Page 65

    10.4.2
    Equipment acquisition has had to be progressed over longer time frames than is desirable. This has required the prioritisation of equipment that is essential to maintaining ongoing operational outputs to the detriment of contingency requirements. There is a continued need to provide for essential equipment replacement as existing equipment reaches the end of its useful life. Not securing the funding to replace this essential equipment will result in key capabilities being eroded. This also has implications for force protection and the health and safety of personnel
    Page 117

    At the end of the Term of the recent White Paper, some of the Mowags will be older than the soldiers being carried within. The vehicles will also have spent a lot of time working in a high tempo overseas deployment.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
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    Lt General apod's Avatar
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    For those of you with IKON access the Armour board report is on there with all the options for the Mowag fleet outlined and costed.That report has been submitted to the general staff for consideration.
    Letting the Mowags rot was NOT one of the options as funnily enough they are the cornerstone of our FP measures overseas.
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

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  26. #17
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmití View Post
    Is WP15 your new bible?
    given how it more or less governs Defence policy..... Yes

    If you had IKON you'd be able to see how it feeds in everything at the strategic and operational level (which also filters into the tactical level).

    Eg the monthly battle rhythm draws a lot from it.

    At the end of the Term of the recent White Paper, some of the Mowags will be older than the soldiers being carried within. The vehicles will also have spent a lot of time working in a high tempo overseas deployment.
    Did you read the last sentence of your first quote?

    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    Letting the Mowags rot was NOT one of the options as funnily enough they are the cornerstone of our FP measures overseas.
    I assume you mean as is without any LEP?

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    some of the Mowags will be older than the troops carried within? So what? The DF has always fielded equipment on the basis that it will stay in service for at least thirty years; 1944 25-pdrs? 1963 Alouettes? The Fougas were already old when we got them. The Cessnas are 40 years old. The Mowags are capital equipment and will be kept on until you can see thru the hulls.

  28. #19
    Major General ODIN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
    some of the Mowags will be older than the troops carried within? So what?
    Given the places that the Mowags are sent, and the abuse they get I think it is important. The purpose is to protect the young men and women who travel inside them. If, or when they are no longer able to do this job they should be replaced.

    The Terrex looks like a nice car...similar dimensions, but a lot heavier (extra armor perhaps?), and allows for up to 12 troops. Also, it's a modular design, which would give an element of future proofing and allow for future customization and upgrades.
    Last edited by ODIN; 16th June 2016 at 01:24.
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  30. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
    some of the Mowags will be older than the troops carried within? So what? The DF has always fielded equipment on the basis that it will stay in service for at least thirty years; 1944 25-pdrs? 1963 Alouettes? The Fougas were already old when we got them. The Cessnas are 40 years old. The Mowags are capital equipment and will be kept on until you can see thru the hulls.
    Having obsolete junk should never be acceptable policy, even if it was done in the past.
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  32. #21
    Lt General apod's Avatar
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    "See through the hulls"LOL
    Read the report.Not likely.
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

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    It has always been the case that equipment will be kept in service as long as possible and that is still the case. Mowags and LTAVs will be kept on, because the DF operates at the whim of the Dept of Finance. When you have kit that can be overhauled ad infinitum, such as aircraft, then they will be kept on. Plenty of airlines operate 25, 30 year old aircraft. Plenty of Militaries keep old stuff going because, like Bedford trucks, they cannot be killed, can easily be fixed and spares are plentiful. For example, I'd rather they got rid of the Scorpions or actually made the decision to do so and replaced them with a 90mm Mowag. In terms of obsolencence, the Df has to be as aware as everyone else is about the rate at which electronics go out of date.

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  36. #23
    BQMS EUFighter's Avatar
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    Actually modern Airlines get rid of their planes when they are more than 10years old as the maintenance becomes too much. Check the average age of Ryanair's fleet. What was acceptable in the 1900's should not be the way we manage of AFV fleet.
    Let order a load of Terrex IPV'S and a few with a nice 105mm pointy thing as replacement for the retired AML90's.

  37. #24
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Check the average age of Ryanair's fleet
    Ryanair are actually the biggest trader of second hand 737s. They have block booked so man options on 737s into the future people come to Ryanair rather than Boeing to buy 737s.

    Age is nothing in Aeroplanes, 'cycles' being the key, how landings they have performed. An operator like Ryanair would have a huge amount of cycles per aircraft and so don't hold onto them all that long to ensure they hold value.
    Time for another break I think......

  38. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    Ryanair are actually the biggest trader of second hand 737s. They have block booked so man options on 737s into the future people come to Ryanair rather than Boeing to buy 737s.

    Age is nothing in Aeroplanes, 'cycles' being the key, how landings they have performed. An operator like Ryanair would have a huge amount of cycles per aircraft and so don't hold onto them all that long to ensure they hold value.
    That once was the case alright. Been a bit of a change in thinking of late. The oldest 737-800 fleet is coming up on 14 years in service and hull turnover is low at the minute. Some newer birds have left the fleet over the years to add to the confusion.

    https://m.planespotters.net/airline/Ryanair

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