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  • #31

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    • #32
      Given that was '82 wonder what their workshops look like now - great shame they don't produce vehicles for Defence Forces

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      • #33
        What were their APC's like in service? Are they still used for anything?
        'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
        'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
        Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
        He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
        http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Flamingo View Post
          What were their APC's like in service? Are they still used for anything?
          I only heard good things (although being 4x4 I think they had limited mobility off-road (open to correction)).

          There used to be at least 1 in the National Transport Museum, 1 I think is still serviceable in the Cav Sch (as a museum type piece).

          At least some were used for target practice in the Glen.

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          • #35
            Timoney Drive Systems At Heart of Yugoimports Lazar 8 X 8

            "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
            "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

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            • #36
              I only heard good things (although being 4x4 I think they had limited mobility off-road (open to correction)).
              You only ever spoke to people who never used them then!

              In fairness there was a mixed response as each of the marks that entered service had their problems from being under powered to being plagued with mechanical problems due to being short run vehicles with attempts to cross engines and gear boxes in the different marks, by the end of service in the 1990s my last run in with one was in 1996, they were on their last legs.

              Over engineered and under developed , had the production runs been longer the issues would have probably been ironed out. They were an attempt to move into the 1980s as opposed to the M3s which were a 1960s car.

              there were comfortable to drive I believe, good crew conditions and the license built versions overseas with Belgium the BDX was a good car. The later progressions like the Valkyrie again suffered lack of investment and gain if the army had gone into the level of partner ship we did with Panhard or even Mowag there could have been a different result.


              Two in the Curragh, a Mk 5 and a Mk 6, the prototype hull was in Coolmoney for years until some one cut it up after it had been used as a hard target, sad loss. Transport Museum in Howth has one on display and I think one in reserve.

              Timoney actually built an armoured car for Tanzania that went into service and was comparable with the AML 90.

              The Timoney with the AML turret featured was a trial and worked quite well but the turret took up so much space internally the vehicle was no longer an APC....and performance was comparable with the AML 90 so no need for change.
              Last edited by hptmurphy; 5 January 2018, 13:59.
              Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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              • #37
                One also in National Museum Collins Barracks Dublin.

                I think their Fire tender (Aer Corps)had on going problems with steering

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Orion View Post
                  Given that was '82 wonder what their workshops look like now - great shame they don't produce vehicles for Defence Forces

                  As Singapore Technologies Kinetics announces the delivery of two prototype 8x8 Terrex 3 vehicles to Australia to participate in trials, it is not as well …


                  They built the Terrex 3 prototypes in Ireland.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Orion View Post
                    Given that was '82 wonder what their workshops look like now - great shame they don't produce vehicles for Defence Forces
                    They have to go through the tender process like everyone else. Their offering did not make the final grade when the Mowag was in the running against the Pandur. It was still at prototype stage, while the P3 and pandur were in full production and in use with other armies.
                    I'm sure if the competition was run in the morning things would be different. However the fact is Timoney is not capable of the large scale production General Dynamics European Land combat systems can achieve in either their Mowag, Pandur or Santa Barbára manufacturing facilities.

                    P.S. @Northie, Paywall at that site.
                    For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by northie View Post
                      https://www.shephardmedia.com/news/l...behind-terrex/

                      They built the Terrex 3 prototypes in Ireland.
                      Also sent over I belive a Bushmaster in mild steel to the Australians
                      Last edited by sofa; 8 January 2018, 01:08.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by sofa View Post
                        Also sent over I belive a Bushmaster in mild steel to the Australians
                        Is pretty common for prototypes that do not have to be put through ballistic tests, and the Aussies and others seem to have liked the Bushmaster as they have built over 1000 and there is even a new version being built in Indonesia: Sanca MRAP.

                        Also they are the go-to company for 8x8 design, CM32, Terrex, Lazar................, do the design and then rake in the royalties. Also they have a major co-operation with Rheinmetall makers of the HX/SX trucks, Boxer, Lynx.........

                        It still would be great if we did have some kit made by them and I would hope that through PESCO they could get on the next generation of vehicles.

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                        • #42
                          While the rest of the world unashamedly buys or manufactures locally, every Irish government has of yet failed to see the value in supporting local industry with local manufacturing or basic industrial offsets.

                          However you would suspect that had the Terrex been an in existence when a Mowag and a Pandur were facing off in the Curragh, there may have been a different outcome. The Bushmaster, fine niche vehicle that it is just didn't meet the specs. It was probably the first Irish military acquisition process where the tender specs were exceeded. ( 8x8 vs the tender specified 6x6)
                          Last edited by Jetjock; 9 January 2018, 01:02.

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                          • #43
                            Given the state of Irish industry in the 1970s and ‘80s (trade unions, I’m looking at you) it was, I say reluctantly, a smart play to buy foreign. It might have been possible if government had declared, say, VCD and Timoney to be strategic industries, taken a large share and curbed union rights. In fact, between the 1930s and 1990s it would have made security sense for the state to invest and maintain a limited domestic arms industry - an ammunition factory, capacity to license build small arms - as well as vehicles and vessels. However it would only have been practical if the domestic market for these could provide a cradle for foreign sales and partnership growth. Government support through partnership, control and purchases would have been essential in every case.
                            The navy never got enough ships, the army never got enough vehicles and the ban on civilian firearm ownership meant you’d be making rounds to sell to yourself. The imagination, the money and the will to develop an arms industry never existed.

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                            • #44
                              The other side of it is, that yes they design vehicles, but I somehow feel that to ramp up a production plant in ireland for producing mil spec mine protected vehicles (i.e. heavy industry) would just end in disaster in this country. We just dont seem capable of managing heavy industry on any scale.
                              "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
                              "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

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                              • #45
                                expat01 has it right; the environment was impossible at the time; look at all the large and small firms that have had to close in Ireland because manufacturing here was too expensive per unit/unions were strike-happy/workforce unruly. Some of the bigger firms only survive because of Govt subsidy or because the workforce has learned that agitation will drive the company abroad. Look at Combilift, makers of the Moffett Mounty forklift in Monaghan. It exists now because it has been sold to people with more money to invest but at least it is still in Ireland, when it could easily be across the border and be lauded as a "British" product. If you wanted Timoney to survive and operate here as a military vehicle builder, you'd have to have a compliant workforce, a union that won't agitate for the kind of useless shite that broke firms in the 70s and some kind of a home market (DF, fire services, heavy vehicles for special use).

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