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Thread: Maritime Patrol

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by meridian View Post
    ...It would be the first dedicated (along with it's Marpat role) transport aircraft flown by the AC - so no need to get ahead of yourself lads with something too big...
    this is the only thing i'd take issue with - there's very little difference between operating a C-295 sized aircraft and operating a C-130 or even C-17 sized aircraft - it has people in the front who fly it, people in the back end who manage the stuff/people in back end, it has engines on the wings and it flies from A to B. if you have the organisational ability to operate a C-295 flying from Baldonell to North Africa, you have the ability to operate a C-130 or C-17 from Baldonell to North Afrca, only with 2, 3, 4 or even 10 times the payload.

    much as i believe that C-295 would probably get the nod because of cost and commonality - or perceived commonality - with the C-235, the C-295 needs a very hard, critical look as a 'transport' aircraft: the largest vehicle it can move is a stripped down Polish copy of a WW2 Jeep. no weapons mount, no ballistic protection, no IED protection, no nothing... realisticlly, the largest vehicles it would carry in Irish service are motorbikes and ATV's. it can carry people, 81mm mortars, Javs, HMG's, water, food and ammunition. thats a great improvement on right now, but its still only people moving from A to B.

    this is a 30 year purchase - if the AC really is going into airlift to match the Armys' expeditionary capability/intentions, do you really believe that in 25 years the peak of its capability should be moving small, light, immobile things from A to B?

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  3. #102
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    True, an airplane is an airplane is an airplane. Even though this is the case, there is a bit of a difference between a C-295 and C-17 in terms of mission output, support infrastructure and cost (initial purchase and ongoing support). (I don't say "a bit of a difference" in any way sanctimoniously.) My question would be - what do we want to do, then how are we going to do it? (That bit might require the spending of some money; the clincher as always.)

    However, I agree what you're saying, in that such assets need to provide the required current outputs, as well as being future proofed for whatever else may be required in future. In that light, I'd hope that the Government > DoD > DF > Air Corps set out a detailed requirement and role spec for the aircraft, and that an appropriate solution is procured. If they decide to go for a C-130 type, I'll be over the moon about it - just want to see the right machine/capability being put in place.

    And until whatever it is that's selected is sitting in Bal with an Air Corps roundel and operating for at least six months, it's still a pipedream

  4. #103
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    I would have thought that Maritime patrol would be going down the UAV / SAT route rather than limited Manned flight

    https://www.ffi.no/no/Publikasjoner/...0satellite.pdf

    http://sciencenordic.com/norwegian-s...s-orbital-twin

    https://directory.eoportal.org/web/e...ticle/aissat-1



    All the above for €4 Million per Satellite with a life time of 3 Years. I know a few things I would chop to get this capability!

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  6. #104
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    It would be great to see Irish cube sats being developed for ocean surveillance

    Boats can for example turn off their GPS receiver, which generates information about its position and speed,” admits Olsen.

    “But to tackle such cases we have developed other methods for determining their position,” he says, without divulging any details.
    The US Navy has utilised 3-sat formations for decades, by utilising TDOA/multilateration - they can detect and locate an RF emitter. It doesn't have to be AIS, it can be something as simple as a guy chatting to a RIB with a Motorola.

    The Chinese have launched their own counterpart. Apparently the newer US sats are now using 2 ship formations.

  7. #105
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    @JJ, the Casa failed as an airliner and the world bought ATRs and only mil sales kept it alive (probably a convenient arrangement for the various branches of EADS)..........@ropebag, I agree completely. A 295 as an airlifter would be a non-runner; it's too small, too thin for standard cargo bins, too short legged...the Don could ramp up to operate a C-130 in fairly short order if it had to but a C17 would be a leap too far. It has the logistic needs of an A330 or 777 and would chew up the budget in a heartbeat.

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  9. #106
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    From Facebook and Twitter.

    101 Surveillance and Airlift Squadron has had a busy week, befitting their motto "Súile thar an Fharraige". 7 maritime patrols, including some whale spotting, 2 search & rescue top covers and an urgent air ambulance to London.
    Yesterday, having returned from a maritime patrol, the Squadron was tasked with providing top cover for a SAR mission approximately 160 miles South West of Castletownbere. During the mission the crew were tasked to aid a medical evacuation from a passenger ship off the South West coast.
    During this type of mission the Casa provides a communication link between the helicopter crews, the vessels, the marine rescue coordination centre and air traffic control. It also carries a number of large life rafts than can be deployed from the rear ramp should they be required.
    "160 nautical miles South West of Castletownbere, 101 Squadron provides "Súile thar an fharraige"."


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  11. #107
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    Not wanting to drag up an old thread, but just to point to two YouTube vids I mentioned in post #95, about the palletised MPA mission system for the C295. It was shown in video

    * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P475t_uZUUI

    with the tactical loader shown in

    * https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVBOtE9g2FQ

    That tactical loader is a bit dinky though lol. Carry on.

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  13. #108
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    i assume the radar and FLIR are a permanent fixture?

    Can it carry a palletised liferaft etc dispenser ?

  14. #109
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    Temporarily removing the belly radome was something I was wondering about earlier (thought it was something that could be done), and GTTC confirmed it would be possible in post #93 (sorry for being pedantic quoting posts!). So that'll prevent all those bush landings we'd like to be doing from damaging it...

    FLIR ball can be removed easily enough (as far as a non-mech like myself would know). I believe I've seen pictures of one of the current CASAs without it previously. Life rafts came into my mine aswell earlier, don't know about that. Not sure what the current CASA setup is, but I wouldn't imagine it would be difficult in ro-ro setup shown in the video above.

  15. #110
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    The current floor on the casas is not ro-ro. It does not have the roller-mat floor and associated powered rollers for moving bins so whatever goes on the casa has to be dragged or manhandled into position.....the FLIR ball is replaced by a simple cover plate so that's an easy on-off arrangement. taking off the belly radome is more complicated because the radar antenna has to come off, as well, and the associated wiring pushed back up into the belly and the hole covered over, which is not a quick fix.

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  17. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
    The current floor on the casas is not ro-ro. It does not have the roller-mat floor and associated powered rollers for moving bins so whatever goes on the casa has to be dragged or manhandled into position.....the FLIR ball is replaced by a simple cover plate so that's an easy on-off arrangement. taking off the belly radome is more complicated because the radar antenna has to come off, as well, and the associated wiring pushed back up into the belly and the hole covered over, which is not a quick fix.
    The radar would probably need calibration work afterwards then as well ?!

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  19. #112
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    Thanks for confirming that GTTC. I should have noted that this might be something that we could see with a ro-ro setup on a future C295 installation, should two or four of them be purchased....

  20. #113
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    the radar should not need recalibrating as removing an antenna is commonplace. If it's just a case of refitting the same antenna, then the radar computer will self-test when it's first switched on.....the roller-mat floor is probably an option for the Casa from day one and probably could be retrofitted to the 235s if needed.

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  22. #114
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    Attachment 8114 this is a quick-replacement bulk cargo floor in an A320, which sits on the standard roller-mat floor in the hold. So, no mod or adjustment to the aircraft need be done and it can be removed in a few minutes, so that palletised or binned cargo can go in.

  23. #115
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    I don't think it is practical to retro-fit anything to an aircraft that has already had a costly mid life upgrade. Time to support Maritime patrol with 2 or more new airframes (295 perhaps), and a third freight only version. The third airframe could assist with pilot currency and training.

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  25. #116
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    Possibly better to get 3 X CN235 replacement (larger) with 2 palletised martime patrol suites

  26. #117
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    they'll have to make a decision fairly soon, knowing how long it takes to get a new aircraft purchase approved and then actually delivered as they are eating up hours/cycles and the airframes will be worthless.....Couldn't agree more, gromiti. That's why they wanted to keep C250 in the first place.....

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  28. #118
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    I think the Portuguese are the only ones with the modular maritime surveillance suite but this video gives a much better understanding of the fit

    http://youtu.be/CWyx6LXqgkc

  29. #119
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    According to C295.ca

    It can operate in a 30kt crosswind (>60kts in airport conditions)

    And it can also be configured for fire fighting (new AC fixed wing role?)

  30. #120
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    https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...compet-420931/


    canada fixed wing SAR competition. Lockheed not playing due to F-35 pull out?

  31. #121
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    Last edited by pym; 9th July 2016 at 22:43.

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  33. #122
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    My suggestion: http://saab.com/air/airborne-solutio...trol-aircraft/

    This plane is also an ISTAR plane and can help with Ireland's EU role in that field. It is not a capability any other EU nations have.

  34. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by ropebag View Post

    much as i believe that C-295 would probably get the nod because of cost and commonality - or perceived commonality - with the C-235, the C-295 needs a very hard, critical look as a 'transport' aircraft: the largest vehicle it can move is a stripped down Polish copy of a WW2 Jeep. no weapons mount, no ballistic protection, no IED protection, no nothing... realisticlly, the largest vehicles it would carry in Irish service are motorbikes and ATV's. it can carry people, 81mm mortars, Javs, HMG's, water, food and ammunition. thats a great improvement on right now, but its still only people moving from A to B.

    this is a 30 year purchase - if the AC really is going into airlift to match the Armys' expeditionary capability/intentions, do you really believe that in 25 years the peak of its capability should be moving small, light, immobile things from A to B?
    I agree - but in that case we'll likely still need something small. My favourite is the direct competitor. The C-27. custom designed a military airplane and much better performance.

    As for MPA, I vote for the Saab Swordfish on theQ400. SAR, ASW, ISTAR (OK, we can probably lose the ASW aspect, but given possibly needed Eu abilities it might come in handy) http://saab.com/air/airborne-solutio...trol-aircraft/

  35. #124
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    what about the MC-27J? Te C-27J is a much better military airlifter than the C-295.

  36. #125
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    Are the Saab offering bigger and have more cargo capacity than the Casa's?

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