Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Maritime Patrol

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts





  • Last edited by pym; 9 July 2016, 23:43.

    Comment


    • My suggestion: http://saab.com/air/airborne-solutio...trol-aircraft/

      This plane is also an ISTAR plane and can help with Ireland's EU role in that field. It is not a capability any other EU nations have.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by ropebag View Post

        much as i believe that C-295 would probably get the nod because of cost and commonality - or perceived commonality - with the C-235, the C-295 needs a very hard, critical look as a 'transport' aircraft: the largest vehicle it can move is a stripped down Polish copy of a WW2 Jeep. no weapons mount, no ballistic protection, no IED protection, no nothing... realisticlly, the largest vehicles it would carry in Irish service are motorbikes and ATV's. it can carry people, 81mm mortars, Javs, HMG's, water, food and ammunition. thats a great improvement on right now, but its still only people moving from A to B.

        this is a 30 year purchase - if the AC really is going into airlift to match the Armys' expeditionary capability/intentions, do you really believe that in 25 years the peak of its capability should be moving small, light, immobile things from A to B?
        I agree - but in that case we'll likely still need something small. My favourite is the direct competitor. The C-27. custom designed a military airplane and much better performance.

        As for MPA, I vote for the Saab Swordfish on theQ400. SAR, ASW, ISTAR (OK, we can probably lose the ASW aspect, but given possibly needed Eu abilities it might come in handy) http://saab.com/air/airborne-solutio...trol-aircraft/

        Comment


        • what about the MC-27J? Te C-27J is a much better military airlifter than the C-295.

          Comment


          • Are the Saab offering bigger and have more cargo capacity than the Casa's?

            Comment


            • Originally posted by DeV View Post
              Are the Saab offering bigger and have more cargo capacity than the Casa's?
              What cargo capacity do the 235's have?

              I saw pictures of them moving some small boxes from one fully functioning international airport to another fully functioning international airport - which I believe is a task FedEx will do for about 200 Euros - but I've never seen pictures of them moving a MOWAG to Chad, or a helicopter engine to Mali, or a heavy weapons Coy to reinforce UNDOF....

              Comment


              • Originally posted by ropebag View Post
                What cargo capacity do the 235's have?

                I saw pictures of them moving some small boxes from one fully functioning international airport to another fully functioning international airport - which I believe is a task FedEx will do for about 200 Euros - but I've never seen pictures of them moving a MOWAG to Chad, or a helicopter engine to Mali, or a heavy weapons Coy to reinforce UNDOF....
                Which is probably why the WP is considering them for replacement by larger more capable aircraft with more cargo capability.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                  Are the Saab offering bigger and have more cargo capacity than the Casa's?
                  They are pure MPA, also the bird is a Bombardier Q400. I would actually take their sensor fit and stick it into a C-27J, which is a dedicated military airlifter and a much better one than the C295. Have it palletized and buy 4, so we have an airlift component too. Then convert a company to paratroopers

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by paul g View Post

                    Along with this we have to remember EU battle groups are the main game in town, and the importance of developing our istar capabilities...

                    At the moment we have a credible ground based ISTAR force, but the one thing the conflict in Ukraine has proven is that the Russians are far better at Electronic warfare than anybody thought and ahead the west, and building on Afghanistan signals intelligence is far more important as even the poorest insurgent today has an iPhone. On the ground I would have guessed that in the future they’ll look at something like the Roke Resolve man pack and vehicle system and the development of Light Electronic Warfare Teams for ISTAR Company

                    However you can’t get away from the fact that there is an ISR gap in the air. The Cessna replacement will in the short term meet and for the first time provide a deployable capability overseas in fairly low threat environments providing a credible capability to complement the ground based Istar capability the army has developing, (which is why they want something in the PC12NG class)

                    But it also leaves a gap for far more dangerous missions, and I think that we could learn from the Italians who used AMX and Tornados in in the ISTAR role in Libya and Afghanistan, with the Reccelite advanced reconnaissance pods able to deliver a real time capability in the ISTAR role. A force of four or so light fighters in the M-346FT class available for overseas missions with a sophisticated reconnaissance pods, data links and a self defence capability of a couple of sidewinders, with a secondary Close air support capability, would be a real force multiplier, (you'd need about 12 in total)

                    As for ground air defence, it’s a real and emerging threat but again going back to the Ukraine and middle east, the threat in the air comes from drones, it explains why ordnance was thinking of experimenting with the old 20mm cannons on they took off the AML’s on as RWS a few months ago, and yes, why the upgrade in the white paper around air defence is likely to see a new version of Giraffe available for overseas deployments.
                    In my ideal thinking we would get C-27J - much more capable but also much more expensive than the C-295 (53 M$ vs 28 M$) with the Saab Swordfish suite on pallets. I have a feeling that that is not going to happen, so 3 C295 with the Saab swordfish suite would probably the way to go. Why thw Saab Swordfish suite? It provides full ISTAR capability, some thing the EU only possesses through the UK, ie not much longer.

                    Alternatively one could get Saab 2000 Swordfish and a C27-j, but that would again mean too many different kinds of airplane.

                    Comment


                    • If you think the DF has a credible ISTAR capability your mistaken. Tokenism would be a kind word to put on it

                      Comment


                      • I am.surprised that it has any at the moment - I was thinking of the future.

                        Comment







                        • Personally I'd prefer to be doing missions over that kind of range in a HC-130J than a King Air..

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Graylion View Post
                            They are pure MPA, also the bird is a Bombardier Q400. I would actually take their sensor fit and stick it into a C-27J, which is a dedicated military airlifter and a much better one than the C295. Have it palletized and buy 4, so we have an airlift component too. Then convert a company to paratroopers
                            Already certified by EASA ?

                            Comment


                            • More info on the operation on the Air Corps facebook page, particularly of note is that the a/c refueled at Shannon...


                              Log into Facebook to start sharing and connecting with your friends, family, and people you know.


                              God forbid an airliner or large ship ever goes down at that range.
                              Last edited by pym; 8 August 2016, 00:35.

                              Comment


                              • There can be few places on Earth as lonely and isolated as the North Atlantic, especially if you are crossing it in a rowing boat, by yourself, in bad weather, with damaged equipment, rolling about at the mercy of the waves, waiting for help.
                                This was the scenario yesterday for the rowing vessel Fox II Stein Hoff - Atlantic Row 2016 , 1100 kilometers West of Valentia, after suffering damage to its rudder and oars during a storm force 10 gale in the early hours of the morning.
                                The UK Coastguard via their Norwegian Coastguard colleagues, received a 406 distress beacon alert from the rowing vessel. Intermittent communication was established via email which enabled the UK Coastguard to continue to track and communicate with the vessel.
                                Given the distance offshore, which is well beyond the endurance of search and rescue helicopters, UK Coastguard requested assistance from shipping, the Royal Air Force and the Irish Air Corps.
                                101 Squadron dispatched one Casa CN235 Maritime Patrol Aircraft with a crew of 4 to locate and establish communications with FOXII. The Casa, with its sophisticated radar, camera and communications suite, also carries four 10-man life rafts, flares and surface markers to guide vessels in the vicinity to a stricken craft.
                                The extreme distance required the Casa to refuel in Shannon Airport which would allow the crew conduct a 2 hour search on scene. En-route they battled headwinds in excess of 110 kph.
                                Shortly before reaching the target, the bulk carrier Ludolf Oldendorff successfully located the casualty vessel and after one hour of attempting to rescue in gale force winds and high seas the crewman was taken safely onboard.
                                The Casa was released from its mission and turned for home, happy to have a significant tailwind, having lived up to the Squadron's motto “Shúile Thar an Fharraige”
                                Well done to all involved in this multi-national search and rescue operation!
                                ‪#‎DefendProtectSupport‬
                                "We will hold out until our last bullet is spent. Could do with some whiskey"
                                Radio transmission, siege of Jadotville DR Congo. September 1961.
                                Illegitimi non carborundum

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X