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  • #46
    Originally posted by ropebag View Post
    and the JW thread rears its head again...

    French SOF just did a 2,000km patrol over 10 days or so into northern Mali, supported by a pair of Puma's and a Tiger - i saw the piccies on Arrse - apparently they didn't meet anyone, but they found a, err... 'bucket' load of weapons.
    Show off's.....

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Rhodes View Post
      Are you being sarcastic?
      Shatter may not be perfect - and yes, after reading all the stuff on hear about the re-orgs and VFM studies etc.. that 'not perfect' is something of a uphamism - but the speech he gave at Dublin Castle about EU defence and foreign policy is, i supect, not a speech than any other Irish Defence minster would ever have made.

      he may have buggered you about, but it appears that he and Enda have a vision of ONH and the kind of tasks they want it to carry out that are what most on here have been crying out for for years. if he gets ditched or moves on because of opposition within ONH to his 'and this is how we're going to do it' plan, you're unlikely to get another minister with the same ambition.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
        most people on here will know of my dislike to most things about the UN, but what you have said that is pretty much why i have always hated any UN mission and been lucky enough to have avoided any official UN duties throughout my career....
        lucky fcuker - i've done two. to know the UN is to hate it...

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by ropebag View Post
          actually, having read the yahoo article that Dev just posted up the thread, i'm not absolutely sure i'd want to be in on the UN force - firstly it talks about the conditions for deployment being that, effectively, peace has broken out with the various naughty groups having been fcuked off, and that - to my reading at least - elections have already been held. it also makes clear that if theres a problem, it'll be the French force, not the UN force, that does the fisticuffs.

          so a pecekeeping op in a place thats at peace, and at peace to the degree that elections have already been held? Cork sounds sportier than that... then the idea that the UN force is so 'unforceful' that if there's a problem it can't/won't generate its own outgoing and will get the French to do the business.

          i'm a big fan of the French - and the Germans after spending time with them - but i'm not a fan of UN-hatted jobs, and this one sounds like they're writing the chaos/ineffectiveness in from the start, rather than the normal practice of developing it in country. press for an EU force to support the French and mesh into their logs train and fire support set-up - ideally with the French in it - and leave the UN to hand out condoms to rape victims, or whatever the hell they do...
          I think you will find most PKOs involve a country where peace has broken out (the clue is in the name).

          IMHO if two different forces are on the ground like that it can be counter productive.


          Originally posted by Aidan View Post
          To be honest, the EU has been making the running on this (and is looking for a situation where it can be seen to be a player in the security world). I'd be very surprised if the UN, post resolution, didn't hand it over to a 'regional security' actor, and let the EU do the leg work. Like Chad at the start, rather than at the end, in other words.

          If New York is actively involved in running the operation, I'd pass too, to be honest.
          Well with the current financial situation, a UN funded mission is what the DF should hope for.



          Originally posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
          most people on here will know of my dislike to most things about the UN, but what you have said that is pretty much why i have always hated any UN mission and been lucky enough to have avoided any official UN duties throughout my career.

          it's time the ONH got the chance to serve operationally without them.
          UN mandated missions:
          Korea
          Gulf Wars 1 & 2
          IFOR/SFOR
          KFOR
          ISAF

          The UK is one of the countries that has major input into the UN mandates that Irish troops serve under (and in some cases try to do the impossible due to be hand strung by the mandate).

          Yet off the top of my head the only UN mission they have made major contributions to were/are UNPROFOR (in fairness a dangerous mission which had a sizable UK contingent) and UNFICYP (where troops currently patrol on mountain bikes in places).

          Originally posted by ropebag View Post
          Shatter may not be perfect - and yes, after reading all the stuff on hear about the re-orgs and VFM studies etc.. that 'not perfect' is something of a uphamism - but the speech he gave at Dublin Castle about EU defence and foreign policy is, i supect, not a speech than any other Irish Defence minster would ever have made.

          he may have buggered you about, but it appears that he and Enda have a vision of ONH and the kind of tasks they want it to carry out that are what most on here have been crying out for for years. if he gets ditched or moves on because of opposition within ONH to his 'and this is how we're going to do it' plan, you're unlikely to get another minister with the same ambition.
          Who is to say he wants the DF to contribute?

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by DeV View Post
            UN mandated missions:
            Korea
            Gulf Wars 1 & 2
            IFOR/SFOR
            KFOR
            ISAF

            The UK is one of the countries that has major input into the UN mandates that Irish troops serve under (and in some cases try to do the impossible due to be hand strung by the mandate).

            Yet off the top of my head the only UN mission they have made major contributions to were/are UNPROFOR (in fairness a dangerous mission which had a sizable UK contingent) and UNFICYP (where troops currently patrol on mountain bikes in places).
            i completed 4 of the missions you list above and spent 6 years in Cyprus - thankfully none of those involved my hands tied behind my back wearing the 'Blue Beret' of the UN.

            there is a big difference to a UN mandated mission (most involves war fighting) where you get to wear your own beret and a UN mission (most involves peace keeping) where you wear that of the UN.

            Originally posted by ropebag View Post
            i hope you lot have got that desert/arid DPM kit sorted out...


            i was hoping the same ropebag - the 'desert cap' and desert boots with temperate camo looks chippy.
            Last edited by RoyalGreenJacket; 23 April 2013, 22:40.
            RGJ

            ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

            The Rifles

            Comment


            • #51
              Chippy?
              I knew a simple soldier boy.....
              Who grinned at life in empty joy,
              Slept soundly through the lonesome dark,
              And whistled early with the lark.

              In winter trenches, cowed and glum,
              With crumps and lice and lack of rum,
              He put a bullet through his brain.
              And no one spoke of him again.

              You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
              Who cheer when soldier lads march by,
              Sneak home and pray you'll never know
              The hell where youth and laughter go.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Fridge Magnet View Post
                Why would I be joking?
                What impresses you so much about the Minister? By the Minister cutting troops in Lebanon by 200 in the next few months or by him not even offering troops to EU NAVFOR despite a formal request from the then Force Commander? The UN has also made requests to Ireland for a training team for UNMAS in South Sudan last year and for troops to UNDOF but still nothing.

                If the Minister is as you say so interested in Defence, now many Dail debates on Defence has he shown up too?

                You said it yourself a few weeks ago, lads are struggling to get an overseas trip in order to fulfil their contracts.
                In the next few weeks there should be a UNSCR forming a UN peacekeeping force in Mali. The UN will of course request an Irish contingent but do you honestly think any more than a handful of troops will be offered? I've no doubt the Army will push hard to get a Battalion over.

                Comment


                • #53
                  we have a couple of lads going to sudan. they reckon by start of july but the numbers will be small. possible 4

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by ropebag View Post
                    and in other news, rain makes shit wet...

                    you're absolutely right about it being a long (indefinate?) training mission - and if anyone thinks that the French - and the rest of the EU countries that think this is important - have done the last of the 'vanguard' fighting, let alone support, they've got an other thing coming...

                    a mate from 29 who has been in Mali on the Artillery training mission - a parallel job to the UK/RoI Inf Trg mission - when asked how it was going, replied 'its like watching a retard trying to **** a doorknob'. he was not sanguine about the chances of success - and obviously he's seen 'Dodgeball'.

                    i hope you lot have got that desert/arid DPM kit sorted out...

                    Agree with your friend . U can invest in equipment and train these guys until they are super troopers but unless there is the political support and inspired leadership they will make no progress and rapidly return to the predatory role on thier own citizens in which many of these armies survive. Where foreign states/ organizations provide support there is a great danger that the main reasons that the local regional troops are supplied is to gain financially from equipment and allowances.. A bit like some countries sending troops to the UN peace keeping forces..

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
                      And the funny thing is, he gives it second place compared to his Justice Portfolio.
                      It isn't him. It's government. He is merely the mouthpiece. Enda has a firm interest in defence. Even the Committee have visited the Naval Base and the Glen.

                      Quite funny photos on facepalm of committee members wearing Body Armour taken in the glen last week. Clearly one size does not fit all.



                      Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        If the Minister is as you say so interested in Defence, now many Dail debates on Defence has he shown up too?
                        It would be somewhat of a mistake to assume that showing up for anything in the Dail indicates an interest in it.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
                          ...the 'desert cap' and desert boots with temperate camo looks chippy.
                          its not that - and as you know in the RA, its a rule that if two officers are wearing the same uniform, the junior one has to retire and change - its that if you're wearing a dark green uniform in 45c of blinding sunlight in the desert you'll be sweating like a blind lesbian in a fish shop, and you'll stick out like the bollocks on a bulldog. neither of which are good for military efficiency...

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Rhodes View Post
                            What impresses you so much about the Minister? By the Minister cutting troops in Lebanon by 200 in the next few months or by him not even offering troops to EU NAVFOR despite a formal request from the then Force Commander? The UN has also made requests to Ireland for a training team for UNMAS in South Sudan last year and for troops to UNDOF but still nothing.

                            If the Minister is as you say so interested in Defence, now many Dail debates on Defence has he shown up too?


                            .
                            A few months ago the minister was more interested in arguing with the CC about how long he took answering questions rather than providing the actual answers.
                            On other occasions he has sent the Junior minister in his place, who knows nothing of the questions being answered other than what is on the script the good civil servant in the pit to his right provided him.


                            Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post

                              1 being a former PDF officer

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Another being a former FCA officer.


                                Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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