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  1. #51
    CQMS Tempest's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flintstone View Post
    The UN through the IMO are trying to increase patrol capacity in the nations bordering the High Risk Area in the Arabian Sea. It would be entirely appropriate to donate all of the retiring OPVs to this cause. It would help in the fight against piracy, which is damaging our future as a trading nation, it might be possible to include it against our foreign aid targets and it would be a good thing to do just for the hell of it.
    I doubt they would be wanted/up to the task, as has been discussed here on another thread.

  2. #52
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Thank You.
    I appear to the only Irish person on here who thinks like/agrees with you.

    Preservation would be ideal but as has been proven in the UK, only the most unique vessels survive and given their maritime heritage its hard to select what should be preserved.

    In this case you have to remember that PVs were designed to accommadate 45 people at a push and when open to the public were very limited with access restricted to the upper decks.

    They are not feasible as museum type ships. People don't want to just stand and look at ships as they are prepared to do with AFVs and aircraft, they are under the impression they are accessible...This is not HMS Belfast, this is a a PV with a history that very few beyond former Naval people and a few enthusiast have an interest in, never mind pay to visit,,Take Eithne for Instance, access to the tween decks is limited from the QMS lobby or the hanger...akin to trying to get people into the Alwee caves via a Phone box, down a very steeply incline stairs ...as all stairs are.After that every thing is very confined...

    Its not something a lot of people can even access....the limitations are huge....there fore expensive, there fore limited.

    To run a single ship as a museum would far exceed the running of the entire national museum at Collins Barracks.

    Some years ago the RN stop publiscizing Sinkex or naming the ships involved as it was found that it generated to much adverse publictity ...from the former crew who still had an affinity to a ship.
    Just visiting

  3. #53
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    I doubt they would be wanted/up to the task, as has been discussed here on another thread
    .

    Their low tech spec and ease of maintanence would have the likes of Kenya or the Seychelles jumping for joy if they were gifted to them.They are one of very few low tech purpose designed patrol platforms still surviving.

    Considering the RN still had WW2 vessels in commission and reserve up to the late 1970s and even reactivated 50s vintage destroyers as replacement for Falklands loses, ships which were not designed for extended patrolling, these are the ideal patrol ship for an emerging nation.


    It would be far more noble to have them patrol off Africa that to have some shower of gougers ditch drinking in their rotting hulks after some failed effort to preserve them.
    Just visiting

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  5. #54
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flintstone View Post
    The UN through the IMO are trying to increase patrol capacity in the nations bordering the High Risk Area in the Arabian Sea. It would be entirely appropriate to donate all of the retiring OPVs to this cause. It would help in the fight against piracy, which is damaging our future as a trading nation, it might be possible to include it against our foreign aid targets and it would be a good thing to do just for the hell of it.
    Excellent suggestion!

  6. #55
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    To the folks talking about keeping a vessel and how we've lost so much of our military heritage:

    If you're committed to saving one of them & keeping them for posterity - please work towards drawing a realistic plan of paying the NS for one and the annual cost of maintenance & berthing.

    Otherwise it's just talk.

    I'd love to see one saved, I'll donate €100 and if there's a thousand others - we might be on to something - but the reality is, I think, there's not another thousand.

    And if there is, will they be around next year? The year after?

    If not, what happens then?

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  8. #56
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    There isn't anything up on etenders about the sale?

  9. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie fish View Post
    Also, to be fair to the former users, the P20 types were not overly technical or maintenance intensive. The engines were operated by mechanics, not engineers (though engineers did supervise). Any potential future user would not need a large skill base of highly qualified technicians to keep the ships operating.
    The same could not be said for former USN or RN warships, even though the job they end up doing is the same.
    Anyone consider a Asgard 3 type of useage albeit motorised.

  10. #58
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danno View Post
    Anyone consider a Asgard 3 type of useage albeit motorised.
    The whole idea of asgard II was she had sails. That was where the teamwork was built. All hands were required on deck to get under sail, or even to make a course change. Hard to justify that on a motor vessel....unless you replace the engine with oars...

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  12. #59
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    The Swedish Navy donated one of their Fast Attack Craft to the Maritime Museum in Stockholm, where there is a fleet of volunteer-maintained ships on public display, very near the wonderful "Vasa" museum. The FAC is kept operational, except for the fact that it's missile boxes are welded shut and it's main gun has had it's breech locked. When it is not tied up and open to the public, it is available for hire for films and believe it or not, parties and birthdays and corporate events. it has two gas turbine engines so it's thirsty so it's not cheap to hire but it can be done. Apart from that, it is still used as a training vessel by the Navy,(playing the enemy), who pay a nominal sum to the Museum to do so, and who provide spares and fuel and servicing and manning by fulltime SN personnel. as for the preserved ships, in effect, the money generated by the "Vasa" pays for their upkeep.

    regards
    GttC

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  14. #60
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    DAIL ANSWERS Tuesday 14th May 2013.

    Naval Service Vessels

    494. Deputy Andrew Doyle asked the Minister for Defence if he will outline the projected decommissioning dates of each of the current fleet of vessels belonging to the Irish Naval Service; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [22885/13]

    Minister for Defence (Deputy Alan Shatter): It is intended to decommission the L.É. Emer in September 2013 and the L.É Aoife in September 2014. These dates correspond to the need for the Naval Service to be in a position to crew the two new replacement ships which are currently being built. The replacement ships are scheduled for delivery in early 2014 and 2015. There are no plans at present to decommission any of the remaining ships in the fleet.

  15. #61
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    Strategic planning anyone? 10-20 year planning?

  16. #62
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    lads you keep saying about preserve and museum
    you all forget something this is ireland things are done backwards , you'll have a few years of donations and volunteers doing the work and then funding will become an issue so then fas will take over and leave everyone and anyone at the ship and over time it will deteriorate ,as usual the irish head honchos will deside to cut the funding and it will be down to get dulux to cover the rust cause they wont pay for the lead based paint ffs
    i admire your willing to preserve part of our history but sometimes it just not practical or feasible but if any should be kept it should be the p31 she is the biggest and maybe then we might have the money
    realistically they should either be sold for scrap or as is or just sunk
    sold as is ,is probably the best out come as you dont need to rip as much stuff out of the ship therefore less man hrs and more cash
    who threw the smoke in the van

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  18. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tempest View Post
    I doubt they would be wanted/up to the task, as has been discussed here on another thread.
    I beg to differ. They would be very much wanted. As I stated, the IMO is seeking donations of such ships. As for up to the task, while they might be a bit worn out for operations in the Atlantic they would be very suitable for coastal patrols especially in areas where none exist at present.

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  20. #64
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TangoSierra View Post
    Strategic planning anyone? 10-20 year planning?
    20 years?

    What about 5 years?

  21. #65
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    I would say the last time we dabbled with maritime history would have left a sour taste in the mouth of the Dep't of Finance.
    Remember the Kerry Jennie Johnston. The amount of dishonesty that went on in building it was shameful.

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  23. #66
    Chief Casey Ryback
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    Roll up roll up the ,tickets now available for the Irish Navy Reinactment Cruise of a three week patrol on board a genuine (retired ) Irish Naval Patrol Vessel ,300 euros per week all found. Autentic menu of all your old favourites , duty free free booz and gambling , visit all the old hang outs , including , Killybegs , Blacksod Bay , Dungarvin , Rathmullin to name a few . Dirty movies available ( pay per view )
    Last edited by Laners; 16th May 2013 at 18:30.
    Don't spit in my Bouillabaisse .

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  25. #67
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laners View Post
    Roll up roll up the ,tickets now available for the Irish Navy Reinactment Cruise of a three week patrol on board a genuine (retired ) Irish Naval Patrol Vessel ,300 euros per week all found. Autentic menu of all your old favourites , duty free free booz and gambling , visit all the old hang outs , including , Killybegs , Blacksod Bay , Dungarvin , Rathmullin to name a few . Dirty movies available ( pay per view )

    Do you remember old sweats telling you 'people would pay for this ' when you were dying sick or just pissed off!!! Obviously it stuck in your mind.

    never had coddle since I left the Navy, would almost be worth one trip for a good feed of it.
    Just visiting

  26. #68
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    Eh not to cut across your thread here but..

    The Engineering department is staffed by Engine Room Artificers 1 CPO and 3 PO/ERAs.
    These men aren't just "mechanic operators" they are dual and some times triple quailifed engineers.

    A MEO is just a marine engineer training takes 3-4 years.

    An ERA is a tradesman with a nationsl craft cert. 4 years of appreticship.
    They are concurrently trained as an artificer during this time. 4 years.
    They are also professional NCOs.
    Most have one or more other qualifications such as a separate second trade (4 more years) or a marine engineering officer of the watch ticket which you only get on completion of a the equivalent of a degree course.
    They will also most likely be an instructor in one of the following ( confined spaces entry & rescue, working at heights, tower climbing & rescue, maritime interdiction operations)
    They are also DCFF experts.
    They are also the only true watch keeping POs.

    They are not just mere "engineers" it takes at least 7 years to get to PO/ERA and they are worth every ounce if effort put into them.

    The MEO is a manager.

    The CPO is the line manager, foreman, library, judge, jury, executioner.

    Just saying like......lol

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  28. #69
    the last mohican slapper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laners View Post
    Roll up roll up the ,tickets now available for the Irish Navy Reinactment Cruise of a three week patrol on board a genuine (retired ) Irish Naval Patrol Vessel ,300 euros per week all found. Autentic menu of all your old favourites , duty free free booz and gambling , visit all the old hang outs , including , Killybegs , Blacksod Bay , Dungarvin , Rathmullin to name a few . Dirty movies available ( pay per view )
    who threw the smoke in the van

  29. #70
    Lt General Bravo20's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laners View Post
    Roll up roll up the ,tickets now available for the Irish Navy Reinactment Cruise of a three week patrol on board a genuine (retired ) Irish Naval Patrol Vessel ,300 euros per week all found. Autentic menu of all your old favourites , duty free free booz and gambling , visit all the old hang outs , including , Killybegs , Blacksod Bay , Dungarvin , Rathmullin to name a few . Dirty movies available ( pay per view )
    You might be onto something there.

  30. #71
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran Marum View Post
    DAIL ANSWERS Tuesday 14th May 2013.

    Naval Service Vessels

    494. Deputy Andrew Doyle asked the Minister for Defence if he will outline the projected decommissioning dates of each of the current fleet of vessels belonging to the Irish Naval Service; and if he will make a statement on the matter. [22885/13]

    Minister for Defence (Deputy Alan Shatter): It is intended to decommission the L.É. Emer in September 2013 and the L.É Aoife in September 2014. These dates correspond to the need for the Naval Service to be in a position to crew the two new replacement ships which are currently being built. The replacement ships are scheduled for delivery in early 2014 and 2015. There are no plans at present to decommission any of the remaining ships in the fleet.
    Back to a 7 vessel NS for a few months then.

    The 30 year rule (yes I know they don't fall apart after 30 years and 1 day but they are hard worked) became the 35 year rule for Emer and Aoife. Aisling is only 1 year younger and no plans to decommission her? 40 year rule for Aisling?

    Back to penny packet replacements

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  32. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie fish View Post
    The whole idea of asgard II was she had sails. That was where the teamwork was built. All hands were required on deck to get under sail, or even to make a course change. Hard to justify that on a motor vessel....unless you replace the engine with oars...
    Thats that one settled sowhats left? research or maybe some save the world platform.

  33. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by sofa View Post
    Is Rathkeale near the sea.?
    If not, the cusins will soon dig a channel to access the scrap. boss

  34. #74
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toolbox View Post
    Eh not to cut across your thread here but..

    The Engineering department is staffed by Engine Room Artificers 1 CPO and 3 PO/ERAs.
    These men aren't just "mechanic operators" they are dual and some times triple quailifed engineers.

    A MEO is just a marine engineer training takes 3-4 years.

    An ERA is a tradesman with a nationsl craft cert. 4 years of appreticship.
    They are concurrently trained as an artificer during this time. 4 years.
    They are also professional NCOs.
    Most have one or more other qualifications such as a separate second trade (4 more years) or a marine engineering officer of the watch ticket which you only get on completion of a the equivalent of a degree course.
    They will also most likely be an instructor in one of the following ( confined spaces entry & rescue, working at heights, tower climbing & rescue, maritime interdiction operations)
    They are also DCFF experts.
    They are also the only true watch keeping POs.

    They are not just mere "engineers" it takes at least 7 years to get to PO/ERA and they are worth every ounce if effort put into them.

    The MEO is a manager.

    The CPO is the line manager, foreman, library, judge, jury, executioner.

    Just saying like......lol
    All true, however when it comes to day to day running of the ship only (not including refit/repair) are all those skills necessary? Purely in the event of the ship being operated by a country whose education standards may not be comparable to that of the average NS recruit/apprentice/cadet?

  35. #75
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TangoSierra View Post
    Strategic planning anyone? 10-20 year planning?
    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    20 years?

    What about 5 years?
    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Back to a 7 vessel NS for a few months then.

    The 30 year rule (yes I know they don't fall apart after 30 years and 1 day but they are hard worked) became the 35 year rule for Emer and Aoife. Aisling is only 1 year younger and no plans to decommission her? 40 year rule for Aisling?

    Back to penny packet replacements
    You don't seem to understand political speak. There are no plans to decommission any other ships because at this stage none are near due for replacement.
    The decision to decommission Emer and Aoife is quite a recent one. There is notional lifespan, which is not set in stone. I'm sure the FOCNS will only make a decision to decommission a ship once he is assured that a replacement will follow on.. Aisling has, for reasons unknown, held up better than Emer or Aoife, but as soon as a decision is made to begin construction of either OPV 3 or EPV1, then they will begin planning to replace Aisling. The current operational Tempo of the PVs though however is far reduced compared to that of either the LPVs, or the HPV. Their ability is currently closer to the CPVs, just without a 76mm OTO, speed, just with more comfortable crew accommodation. Read the news reports of their arrests, or where they are open to the public, or what they have been up to lately, they aren't going far from home, and this is unsustainable. There will be no loss of capability between the decommissioning of P21 and P22 as their removal from service coincides with when they would be due to go to drydock and refit anyway.

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