Royal Navy ScanEagle Drone

[Schmigs]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/apr/25/uk-controlling-drones-afghanistan-britain

Remotely controlled armed drones used to target insurgents in Afghanistan have been operated from the UK for the first time, the Ministry of Defence said on Thursday.

Missions of the missile-carrying Reaper aircraft began from a newly built headquarters at RAF Waddington in Lincolnshire earlier this week – five years after the MoD bought the unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) to monitor and attack the Taliban.

Since then the UK has been controlling the RAF's five Reaper aircraft from Creech airforce base in Nevada because the British military did not have the capability to fly them from here.

However, the MoD made building a new UAV hub at Waddington a priority following the 2010 strategic defence and security review, and the centre "stood up" at the end of last year.

When the time comes to replace the CASA's something like reaper may be the way to go. Longer endurance, cheaper airframe costs, and cheaper operating costs. Its nice to have the cargo space in the CASA's but the real mission for the aircraft is surveillance of Irish waters. If getting our own operating station is too expensive it might be handy to have one next door that we can rent some time on.

[DeV]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...nistan-britain




When the time comes to replace the CASA's something like reaper may be the way to go. Longer endurance, cheaper airframe costs, and cheaper operating costs. Its nice to have the cargo space in the CASA's but the real mission for the aircraft is surveillance of Irish waters. If getting our own operating station is too expensive it might be handy to have one next door that we can rent some time on.

If we can get something with the right sensor fit and maybe lift rafts on hardpoints.

By we would lose some flexibility, even if we do gain endurance. There could also be airspace issues

[Aidan]

We would have an issue with range (and speed) and surviveability also. We have an awful lot of air and water out there to the west, and more range means more size, and thus more cost. There really isn't anything on the market that would come close to fitting our requirements (and no, Global Hawk is far too expensive).

Long term, UAVs are an obvious fit for a lot of MPA type activities, but it's hard to avoid the conclusion that manned platforms are likely to be far more suitable for quite a while, but that UAVs will be a very useful addition to the fleet when the time comes. With all of the exploration activity going on at the moment, and even a bit of luck, it's possible that we will have a requirement for a much stronger MPA capacity in the medium term too.

[ropebag]

If we can get something with the right sensor fit and maybe lift rafts on hardpoints.

By we would lose some flexibility, even if we do gain endurance. There could also be airspace issues

2 CASA's currently provide 2 maritime patrols per week (according to the last figures published on here). 2 Reaper's would have the range/availability to have one in the air at all times: 24/7/365. if the wit of man can get a man on the moon and turn naval gun barrels into bombs and drop them on live targets in a month, then the wit of man can probably come up with a pylon mounted, air dropped life raft.

the loss of flexibility would be a real issue if the AC had used the flexibility of the CASA's, but it doesn't.

[Aidan]

Frankly, given the rate at which both Reapers and Predators are lost, 2 won't get you very far. The RAF started with 2, and then promptly lost one, for example.

And the CASAs do a lot more than the 'mean', when required.

Reaper is also quite expensive (not just the airframe but the ground station).

That said, if someone offered the DF 5 of them in the morning, I'm sure they grab them with both hands.

[DeV]

2 CASA's currently provide 2 maritime patrols per week (according to the last figures published on here). 2 Reaper's would have the range/availability to have one in the air at all times: 24/7/365. if the wit of man can get a man on the moon and turn naval gun barrels into bombs and drop them on live targets in a month, then the wit of man can probably come up with a pylon mounted, air dropped life raft.

the loss of flexibility would be a real issue if the AC had used the flexibility of the CASA's, but it doesn't.

Can a Reaper do a MATS flight? An air ambulance flight? Parachute troop personnel? Etc

[ropebag]

Can a Reaper do a MATS flight? An air ambulance flight? Parachute troop personnel? Etc

you have a dedicated - and expensive - MATS aircraft, you have a thriving Air Ambulance industry (that is already the HSE's first port of call), and how often is the parachuting/cargo cability of the CASA used by a service that packs in a heady two MPA flights a week?

if this vaunted flexibility is so important to Defence, why is it that your SF does its parachute training in your helicopters?

[DeV]

you have a dedicated - and expensive - MATS aircraft, you have a thriving Air Ambulance industry (that is already the HSE's first port of call), and how often is the parachuting/cargo cability of the CASA used by a service that packs in a heady two MPA flights a week?

if this vaunted flexibility is so important to Defence, why is it that your SF does its parachute training in your helicopters?

It is in addition to the primary role that it gives this flexible, a single purpose aircraft can only carry out a single purpose.

You better tell the HSE because they have tasked the AC for at least 3 missions in the last 4 days.

The CASAs are also used for parachuting.

[pym]

a service that packs in a heady two MPA flights a week?

Would love to know where that figure is from - I can tell you from my observations, a Casa is up pretty much every day and I don't mean short hops - long missions.

Sometimes they're both up on separate missions.

The ARW train on both the helicopters and the Casa's: http://youtu.be/weC7pLHk9ow?t=2m20s

[Aidan]

a service that packs in a heady two MPA flights a week?

To use the developing vernacular, he pulled it out of his Anglo Irish Bank. May be something to do with just counting MPA missions (as opposed to training and other flights), or counting periods when one of the aircraft was out of the country for refit. Either way, it doesn't tally with the fact that there is at least one CASA up every day, which should be plain to anyone living or working close to Bal or to the approaches to it.

And btw - there are two MATS aircraft.

[Tadpole]

CASAs do about 250 MPA missions per year but wont be replaced in quasi civil operations for many years to come.
In general terms UAVs are less flexible, lower speed and payload, very expensive to operate and still are no where close to operating in civil airspace.
This class of UAV is really for where you dont want to put live personnel at risk but even at that there is a bit of a U Turn in US policy where UAVs, where at all possible, are being replaced with manned aircraft such as the MC-12 Liberty (King Air 350) purely on cost and flexibility basis. In the past even where personnel were safe there was a push for UAVs.

As for single engine UAVs over the Atlantic the Israelis lost one last month after engine issues and ditched it. Lots of years left in manned MPA like the CASA.