iveco ambulance

[The real Jack]

Saab defo has a point there, I've seen the iveco pick up cas from places a HSE ambo wouldn't have got near but the df cheaped out on the first tail-lift option evidently. The thing is so high I wouldn't call it off road though it's COG is probably higher than a mowags!

[hptmurphy]

What is best practice?

Normal ambulances don't normally go off road.

The civvi ones that do, like the CD, go into nice fields etc.

These monster ambulances are built to go anywhere. Through ground that is pock marked with shell creators.
Maybe with some nasty people shooting in your general direction.

What "best practice" can you possibly be applying?
If you google images for other army ambulance you'll see it is the same all round.

Fcuk all to do where the vehicles ago and the off road capacity, its how the patient is handled and in the case of ambulances its about patients.

Given that 100% of the casualties these vehicles will be tasked with are in a peace time situation , albeit on exercise, the people being treated are to be dealt with the best response available.

Best practice, patient safety !!!

Having being a real life casualty in a military scenario, I needed the best care available..

I didn't trip over a boot lace or OD on sheep shit .....

Compression spinal fracture, real injury requiring proper care, shit happens and those who suffer injuries require the best care available

Just because its DF related doesn't mean the injuries aren't real and don't require that care applicable to others. The helo dispatched to lift me on the day never made it, but the SBA who looked after me on board did a job second to none.

[Saab]

But in that case best practice and safety first would require a helicopter evac any where that a standard ambulance could go.

Or on the other hand if you want to be totally by the book on health and safety one should avoid the situation that could cause injury.
And that would in fact mean not taking part in an exercise in the first place.
Heck better still if we could avoid being involved in any conflict at all no soldier would ever be in any danger and then no army ambulances would be needed at all.
Problem solved!!!!

[X-RayOne]

Fcuk all to do where the vehicles ago and the off road capacity, its how the patient is handled and in the case of ambulances its about patients.

Given that 100% of the casualties these vehicles will be tasked with are in a peace time situation , albeit on exercise, the people being treated are to be dealt with the best response available.

Best practice, patient safety !!!

Just because its DF related doesn't mean the injuries aren't real and don't require that care applicable to others. The helo dispatched to lift me on the day never made it, but the SBA who looked after me on board did a job second to none.

Hpt, i think you're confusing H&S best practice with clinical best practice here.

Ambulance tail lifts were primarily introduced to prevent lifting/slipping injuries being done to ambulance crews. the fact that the patient was less likely to be dropped in a fall was an added bonus. It was all instigated by health and safety at work.

That is a completely different animal from clinical best practice, i.e. best medical treatment appropriate to the illness/injury. taking your injury as an example how you were put into the ambulance would have had no bearing at all on your injury as long as the best spinal immobilisation, pain management, patient packaging, etc. was done by the first responders and medics prior to getting you to the vehicle.

the reality with military/expedition/remote medicine due to locations and environments is that it usually not realistic to achieve best practice, either clinically or H&S wise, as the normal population understands them.

that is why there are often significant variances in what is considered best practice in medical treatment protocols, etc. between these austere settings and normal civil medicine.

[hptmurphy]

But in that case best practice and safety first would require a helicopter evac any where that a standard ambulance could go.

Or on the other hand if you want to be totally by the book on health and safety one should avoid the situation that could cause injury.
And that would in fact mean not taking part in an exercise in the first place.
Heck better still if we could avoid being involved in any conflict at all no soldier would ever be in any danger and then no army ambulances would be needed at all.
Problem solved!!!!

And on the days when helos can't fly.....

[Saab]

If we are to follow best practice to the letter then there is no such thing as no helo.

After all for health and safety reasons no one should be out in inclement weather.

[Truck Driver]

If we are to follow best practice to the letter then there is no such thing as no helo.

After all for health and safety reasons no one should be out in inclement weather

We are talking about the military here.... The Battle of the Bulge didn't grind to a halt because the weather was bad and the planes couldn't fly !!!

[The real Jack]

dev clear your pm's

[Saab]

But TD thats the point isn't it.

During any battle medics do what they have to do.
It would ne nice if all casualties fell beside a convenient road to your nice day-glow ambulance could pull up and the crew use all the patient handling equipment to safely lift the patient and transport them comfortably to hospital.

Instead of inconsiderately falling in the middle of a what might have been a field but has been turned into a series of creates.
Best practice (HSE style) would be to sit and wait for that helo as the fancy road ambulance won't be able to get there and the ground would be too rough to permit manual carrying.

So IMHO it is better to have a vehicle capable of traversing the ground to get the casualty out before they bleed to death.

[DeV]

Maybe the 4x4 Nissan Pathfinder discussed on page 3 wasn't such a bad idea?!

[hptmurphy]

Reality check people..we are not at war!!!!

[DeV]

dev clear your pm's

Done

[F_M]

Reality check people..we are not at war!!!!

Ukraine wasn't at war a year ago and they are Constitutionally neutral!

Not being at war is not an excuse to do things by half measures.

Battlefield medical care is certainly not something we should scrimp on, and, as a bonus it can all be used to help civies here in Ireland.

[ropebag]

as a little ditty, i read a little statistic that after implementing the casualty reception/clearing procedure in place at Bastion, the A&E units in the West Midlands saw the fatality rate within those A&E's fell by a full one third.

[hptmurphy]

Ukraine wasn't at war a year ago and they are Constitutionally neutral!

Not being at war is not an excuse to do things by half measures.

Battlefield medical care is certainly not something we should scrimp on, and, as a bonus it can all be used to help civies here in Ireland.

..And so the Army sent EMTs to the HSE / NAS for upskilling!!!!

I often wonder...peoples reality