iveco ambulance

[Saab]

Murphy you are dead right, we are not at war.

And so by your logic don't need such vehicles or to practice silly things like sectional battle drills or cas evac because we aren't at war so we don't need any of that stuff.

These vehicles are the ones that go in where the LTAVS go.
Nissans don't have the same clearance so can't go there.

And since the DF have those nice yellow ambulances with the tail lifts I assume it is very important for EMTs to get the best of training from where ever available,

[DeV]

These vehicles shouldn't be going anywhere near where the LTAVs are in a battle situation that is what the MOWAG ambulance is for

[na grohmiti]

Having had the pleasure of being a patient of the fine medics of the Irish Defence forces, Its fair that I share my story.
The circumstances of the incident are unimportant. It is enough to say it involved me falling from a height of over 10 feet, and landing on my helmeted head into a shallow stream. Others with me returned to camp to inform the duty medic. Duty medic was equipped with 4x4 Land Rover ambulance. Duty medic was not able to leave camp as they had to remain at MAP, and incident had not happened inside camp, where other military activities were ongoing. If I was to report to MAP then they could deal with me. My colleagues returned with our own transport, brought me to MAP. Medic in MAP carried out initial checks and quickly determined I required full spinal board due to circumstances of incident, even though I was "walking wounded". However, because I am and was, quite a large gentleman, and the medic was one of the minimum height types that otherwise do an excellent job, and his female assistant did not believe she could carry me herself, It was suggested that I make my own way to the back of the 4x4 ambulance, within which I was attached to spinal board.
On arrival at A&E, because of the type of stretcher in use, I had to be lifted from back of ambulance assisted by hospital porter, and transferred from there to hospital trolley. To do otherwise would see me in spinal board, and probably 2 others with back trouble for ever after.

So, back to our original story, how could it have been done better? If it had happened in civvy life for example? What point in having a 4x4 ambulance that is not equipped to deal with a casualty coming from rough terrain? Why is there not enough medics available to carry a fully equipped soldier at the upper end of the dimensional scale? (If you have uniforms in large sizes, then you should expect to have to carry the soldiers who wear the large sizes when they get injured).
What would be the practice in civvy land for example had I fallen from a horse? Would the HSE ask me to walk to the nearest road where the road ambulance was parked? If I worked on a Building site and had fallen from scaffolding?
Better still, If I was overseas in Lebanon etc, or anywhere where armies operate under occasional fire and working from a watchtower/OP type elevated platform, and fell from same, would the Brass insist that the 2 ambulance crew be the only ones to put patient into back of ambulance using brute force alone, or provide the proper hoists and lifts for them to do so with the minimum of manual handling?

I'd genuinely love to know.

[madmark]

yes these ambulances are needed, the fault lies in how the patient is loaded into the ambulance it IS unsafe to the patient and the medic. the problem i beleive is with our procurement process when we sent people to evaluate what we want/need. it is people who are not the end users making the decision on what we get which is usely the cheepest option

[hptmurphy]

And so by your logic don't need such vehicles or to practice silly things like sectional battle drills or cas evac because we aren't at war so we don't need any of that stuff.

These vehicles are the ones that go in where the LTAVS go.
Nissans don't have the same clearance so can't go there.

We have an army that train and suffer casualties during this training and these people need to be cared for as if it were work related accidents, there fore the support equipment and services offered need to be of the highest standard.
NG gives a perfect example and Madmark backs it up with what I have said that we are buying equipment that is not suited to task .
What the capabilities of the vehicle are in a peace time situation are imperative and what ifs of war fighting are nothing but conjecture. If these vehicles re being used to convey casualties they must meet that standard which can give the best care to the injured party.

Anything else is less than acceptable

[Saab]

Dev Mowag is a higher mobility vehicle than the LTAV. Hence Iveco wouldn't go wher the Mowag goes and neither would the LTAV.

Not sure if NG's example is quite as good for your cause as you might like to think.

IF someone falls on a building site in the city a rescue tender and ambulance is turned out.
If CD are operating off road they send a rescue crew of 8 in addition to the off road ambulance.
Mountain rescue sends up to 12 for rough area rescues where the CD can't normally go.
All of them rely on pure muscle to get the job done..
I wonder why that is?

It wouldn't by any chance be because it is the most efficient or best way to do it?

No probably not as we all know using a helicopter would be better.

Or would it be simply because there isn't actually a better way?

I was carried in the CD Landrover ambulance once. It has a lot of difficulty getting out of where we were. If it had a tail lift on the back it would never have made it.

The problem might be the lack of personnel as opposed to un-suitable vehicles.
Or using the vehicles in situations they weren't meant for.

[DeV]

Dev Mowag is a higher mobility vehicle than the LTAV. Hence Iveco wouldn't go wher the Mowag goes and neither would the LTAV.

It's nothing to do with mobility.

These ambulances aren't armoured so wouldn't be going as far forward as where the armour (MOWAG or LTAV) is

[Saab]

No nothing about that sort of thing.
I was only referring to the ability to go places.
There was an Iveco Ambulance and LTAV at the pumps in CBB. They are about same height and length and so would get over the same sort of teraine.
Just like a 4x4 truck can get over things nissans get stuck on.

[DeV]

The IVECO shouldn't be deployed anywhere near a MOWAG or LTAV in action!