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  • #76
    Originally posted by DeV View Post
    The Israelis have vested interested in the region and are one of the belligerents in the conflict that created UNDOF.

    UNDOF FHQ is in the AO in the Golan (having moved from the Syrian capital), not Israel!

    UNDOF has been largely successful in fulfilling its mandate during its long history.

    May be if the US and EU were to put efforts into supporting UNDOF and UNIFIL in order to stop the Syrian violence spreading instead of taking sides in a civil war it would help!

    Maybe if the Israelis were willing to talk instead of fight / settle people in areas that aren't there's there would be less or a need for UNDOF, UNIFIL and UNTSO.

    Most missions (especially in the Middle East) are about lines on a map.

    If UNDOF helps prevent Syrian violence spreading to Israel that is a good thing!
    There's a hell of a lot of maybes in your post, can we really send ( and remember neither you or I are going)'our Defence Forces out on a list of maybes.

    UNDOF s mission can be basically put as guarding and persevering the Syria / Israeli border as it stands.

    Syria is in the middle of a civil war between two of its biggest tribes/ factions/ houses etc- the only thing they all agree upon is how much they hate Israel.

    What has happened and what will happen even more is that the Syrian Forces will shell or incur into Israel, this will provoke an Israeli response, the situation will be racketed up for political means either to keep 1 tribe in power or bring the other tribe into power, either way Paddy the pig will be stuck in the middle and what worries me most is that young Irish men and women will come home in body bags simply to legitimise a political faction and that shite, toothless, corrupt organisation called the UN.

    I have served along side many Armies and I have no doubt our troops are the best, they can do anything and they will fight to the last man- but why are we sacrificing them to what is political gamesmanship.

    The Austrians are no ejits- nor are they cowards so why did they leave.

    If we were going somewhere that we we protecting and saving the lives directly of the ordinary people on the ground I would say bring it on, if some of ours were killed protecting the ordinary people I would be so sad but I would say they died protecting the oppressed and that's the lot of a Soldier-

    Lets not run to quickly to the sound of drums- the UN demands we are there by a certain date, surely we should demand the UN shuts the fcuk up and uncorrupts itself.


    Best of luck and safe home to all the exceptional men and women going out there- we should remember them and all our Defence Forces comrades and pray to whatever God we pray to to keep them safe and bring them home.
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

    Comment


    • #77
      2 maybes but one of them has happened (the EU dropping the arms embargo - IMHO that shows the CFSP is not fit for purpose)

      The other is unlikely to happen in the short term anyway.

      Israel would probably prefer the status quo be maintained in Syria as that border is stable and secure.

      The unfortunate thing is that if we want our troops to serve overseas it is likely to be into unstable war zones (especially if we want high tempo ops). That means risk.

      Comment


      • #78
        Originally posted by DeV View Post
        The Israelis have vested interested in the region and are one of the belligerents in the conflict that created UNDOF.

        UNDOF FHQ is in the AO in the Golan (having moved from the Syrian capital), not Israel!

        UNDOF has been largely successful in fulfilling its mandate during its long history.

        May be if the US and EU were to put efforts into supporting UNDOF and UNIFIL in order to stop the Syrian violence spreading instead of taking sides in a civil war it would help!

        Maybe if the Israelis were willing to talk instead of fight / settle people in areas that aren't there's there would be less or a need for UNDOF, UNIFIL and UNTSO.

        Most missions (especially in the Middle East) are about lines on a map.

        If UNDOF helps prevent Syrian violence spreading to Israel that is a good thing!

        Undof cannot stop violence spreading to Israel, It cannot even protect itself
        Maybe if , should not be the reason why Irish troops should go,
        The unfortunate thing is taht the Powers , US, CHINA, rUSSIA, uk France etc have always used the UN for their own purpose. Maybe if the Russians did not suppluy weapons. The facts are that UNDOF cannot protect itself and the resaon wy the mission was such a "success" was because u had two standing armies facing each other who did not deem it in their interests to invade each other, a off. UNEF another "success " until Egypt told it to buzz off.
        Maybe as u say the bigger powers with the Military capability shoudl support the UN more but then again waht we think they should do and what they do are worlds apart.
        Why is the small countries, Nepal, Bangladesh, Figi , Ireland who have very limited capability to defend themselves besides waht tehy bring to the field manning the barricades, If it had the backing of a carrier fleet off the coast and a brigade or two of US marines then perhasp tahts another story. instead it will have lightly armed troops( thats all we have) hoping atht a smaile and a blue helmet will save them.
        As for the HQ being in the Golan tell taht to the many observers that are at the UN HQ in the old Gov, Generals ?? I think buildings, or sipping beers at the American Colony.

        Comment


        • #79
          Originally posted by DeV View Post
          First of all, the UN requested Irish participation
          Second, you are going as FMR

          The UN requested deployment by 1 September.

          I'd say chances are the Irish will be based at Camp Faouar on the Syrian side where FHQ Coy (FMR) was based.
          The point I was making was about the fact that the futher you travel down the chain of command the less important (any) information is deemed by the level above it, too the point where privates and junior nco's are told pratically nothing. We will not be deployed by the 1st of september, and its simply a matter of terminology ie BMR or FMR....same task is implied.

          I have heard we are to be based at camp Faouar but again at this point its just hearsay, nothing confirmed. The powers that be are apparently still working on what route we are to take to get into Syria and how the excess piranhas will get from UNIFILL to UNDOF.

          Comment


          • #80
            Originally posted by BANDIT View Post
            Undof cannot stop violence spreading to Israel, It cannot even protect itself
            Maybe if , should not be the reason why Irish troops should go,
            The unfortunate thing is taht the Powers , US, CHINA, rUSSIA, uk France etc have always used the UN for their own purpose. Maybe if the Russians did not suppluy weapons. The facts are that UNDOF cannot protect itself and the resaon wy the mission was such a "success" was because u had two standing armies facing each other who did not deem it in their interests to invade each other, a off. UNEF another "success " until Egypt told it to buzz off.
            Maybe as u say the bigger powers with the Military capability shoudl support the UN more but then again waht we think they should do and what they do are worlds apart.
            Why is the small countries, Nepal, Bangladesh, Figi , Ireland who have very limited capability to defend themselves besides waht tehy bring to the field manning the barricades, If it had the backing of a carrier fleet off the coast and a brigade or two of US marines then perhasp tahts another story. instead it will have lightly armed troops( thats all we have) hoping atht a smaile and a blue helmet will save them.
            As for the HQ being in the Golan tell taht to the many observers that are at the UN HQ in the old Gov, Generals ?? I think buildings, or sipping beers at the American Colony.
            It is the superpowers who set up the UN, who control the UNSC and the mandate the various UN ops.

            The same countries then give out about UN forces not acting/reacting (when their mandate doesn't allow them to).

            While also failing to provide troops to the force or even logistical support!

            It is UNTSO HQ that is in Jersuleum. HQ OGG reports to it. UNTSO is an unarmed observer mission and is a different force to UNDOF.

            Originally posted by Cotton View Post
            The point I was making was about the fact that the futher you travel down the chain of command the less important (any) information is deemed by the level above it, too the point where privates and junior nco's are told pratically nothing. We will not be deployed by the 1st of september, and its simply a matter of terminology ie BMR or FMR....same task is implied.

            I have heard we are to be based at camp Faouar but again at this point its just hearsay, nothing confirmed. The powers that be are apparently still working on what route we are to take to get into Syria and how the excess piranhas will get from UNIFILL to UNDOF.
            More than just terminology, a BMR would normally only deploy within a specific battalion's AO (plus possibly be prepared to reinforce the FMR as required) being an organic asset of the Bn OC. The FMR is the FCs asset and can be deployed anywhere in the Force area.

            I fairness if things have been decided they can't filter it down.
            Last edited by DeV; 3 August 2013, 19:37.

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            • #81
              On more than one occasion, UNDOF troops have been kidnapped.... Actually kidnapped.

              The UN is a ****ing toothless organisation. It just took the Austrian's a while to realise it.

              Comment


              • #82
                Originally posted by Fridge Magnet View Post
                On more than one occasion, UNDOF troops have been kidnapped.... Actually kidnapped.

                The UN is a ****ing toothless organisation. It just took the Austrian's a while to realise it.
                So were Irish UNIFIL troops, didn't so DF personnel continuing to serve there

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                • #83
                  we still have one MIA

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                  • #84
                    Originally posted by DeV View Post
                    So were Irish UNIFIL troops, didn't so DF personnel continuing to serve there
                    I'm fully aware of that, I've spoken on more than one occasion about my views on UNIFIL and our contribution to that mission.

                    There's a large difference between placing your troops in danger purely because of the area they deploy to and placing them in danger by having them operate under the rules of an organisation like the UN in a place like Lebanon or the Golan Heights.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by kaiser View Post
                      we still have one MIA
                      Two.
                      Trooper Patrick Mullins and Private Kevin Joyce.

                      Comment


                      • #86
                        Originally posted by DeV View Post
                        It is the superpowers who set up the UN, who control the UNSC and the mandate the various UN ops.

                        The same countries then give out about UN forces not acting/reacting (when their mandate doesn't allow them to).

                        While also failing to provide troops to the force or even logistical support!
                        The permanent members of the UNSC do not control the UN; they have veto powers. Most western countries have become indifferent to UN peacekeeping missions, because they are mostly irrelevant.

                        Our last experiences with large UN PK deployments, UNPROFOR and RWANDA, ended in disasters. In the case of Rwanda, that country was abandoned because the UN was incapable of reacting with the needed muscle; in the case of Bosnia, a NATO force came to the rescue and saved the country from self-destructing.
                        We now have a platoon with the Brazilian Battalion in Haiti, at Brazil's request, because they worked with us in 2010 after the earthquake, and specifically requested R22R Troops (Vandoos) to work with them.

                        Maybe we will return to large UN peacekeeping deployments sometime in the future, but hopefully we will wait until the org unfocks itself. Or something new replaces it.
                        "On the plains of hesitation, bleach the bones of countless millions, who on the very dawn of victory, laid down to rest, and in resting died.

                        Never give up!!"

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                        • #87
                          Originally posted by DeV View Post
                          More than just terminology, a BMR would normally only deploy within a specific battalion's AO (plus possibly be prepared to reinforce the FMR as required) being an organic asset of the Bn OC. The FMR is the FCs asset and can be deployed anywhere in the Force area.

                          I fairness if things have been decided they can't filter it down.
                          I'm only repeating what little has been told to the troops on the form up by the officers giving lectures......that we will be the UNDOF 'BMR' regardless of what they intend or think the accronym means. No need for a lesson on military formations.....I'm not a civilian. I'm presuming you meant if things haven't been decided they cant filter down, thats true and I would rather be given finalised information but I was just stating what little is known at this point. This is not the first time I have been on a first misson form up but the lack of information is a little unnerving, perhaps the filter is blocked somewhere

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                          • #88
                            Originally posted by Jungle View Post
                            The permanent members of the UNSC do not control the UN; they have veto powers.
                            Which means that if one of the 5 wants a Chapter VI instead of a Chapter VII that means we get a Chapter VI, if they don't want a mission there is no mission. It also means the non-permanent UNSC members can be influenced by them.

                            Our last experiences with large UN PK deployments, UNPROFOR and RWANDA, ended in disasters. In the case of Rwanda, that country was abandoned because the UN was incapable of reacting with the needed muscle; in the case of Bosnia, a NATO force came to the rescue and saved the country from self-destructing.
                            What was UNPROFOR's mandate? Allow delivery of aid, who's fault was that?

                            When the mandate was changed and SFOR came to be troops, heavy armour and artillery from the super powers flooded in before that NATO air power was in the main ineffectional.

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                            • #89
                              Would it be Brigade Mobile Reserve by any chance?

                              From what I've read online it looks like the force might be around that scale.
                              "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

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                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Come-quickly View Post
                                Would it be Brigade Mobile Reserve by any chance?

                                From what I've read online it looks like the force might be around that scale.
                                There is brigades in some forces, not UNDOF. strength is around 1,250

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