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  1. #476
    Brigadier General
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    Most Irish soldiers return to UN base in Golan Heights

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0831/640...an-heights-un/

  2. #477
    Rittmeister Herald's Avatar
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    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news...-30549563.html

    Slightly hysterical indo article here.

    Amazingly,most of the comments are readable

  3. #478
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    You spoke too soon with regards to the comments section .

    Anybody have any experience working with Filipino troops?, they seem to have done a cracking job here. Not only refusing to surrender but extracting themselves during the night.
    Determined bunch of chaps!
    "Winston, if you were my husband, I'd put poison in your coffee." - Lady Astor....
    ''Nancy, if you were my wife, I'd drink it'' - Winston Churchill

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  5. #479
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    i see that Ireland is a fully paid-up member of the Zio-Protestant Alliance. excellent, i knew you'd see sense...

  6. #480
    Commandant Come-quickly's Avatar
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    I as pondering the absence of the actual realistic potent means of 'safeguarding' Irish troops in places like this i.e. reinforcing and upgunning in the Irish political dialectic.

    Then I realised, it's still a forbidden idea for Irish troops to kill bad men, note how carefully worded press releases are shaped to avoid any indication of the Army's capacity for violence.

    Yet among the non-pacifist waking in the face of genocide portion of the genital pubic, the army is excorciated for its lack of violence...damned if you do, damned if you don't.
    "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

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  8. #481
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    I suppose from a UNDOF point of view there shouldn't be any AEs within the AO (it being the Syrian army's job to keep them out).

    The only political pull the Irish (or any contributor) has is to threaten withdrawing the contingent. This could lead to a better mandate, heavier equipment being allowed or pressure being put on the Syrian and Israelis so the mission is no longer required.

    There is however no excuse for a lack of political will to even say difficult job well done
    Last edited by DeV; 31st August 2014 at 17:32.

  9. #482
    Rittmeister Herald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    I suppose from a UNDOF point of view there shouldn't be any AEs within the AO (it being the Syrian army's job to keep them out).

    The only political pull the Irish (or any contributor) has is to threaten withdrawing the contingent. This could lead to a better mandate, heavier equipment being allowed or pressure being put on the Syrian and Israelis so the mission is no longer required.
    And in our case what heavier equipment could we bring to the boondoggle? A few 105s? a few(very few) MRV's? its not like we have a regiment of Marders or Apache's we could bring into the Rear area.

  10. #483
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herald View Post
    And in our case what heavier equipment could we bring to the boondoggle? A few 105s? a few(very few) MRV's? its not like we have a regiment of Marders or Apache's we could bring into the Rear area.
    There's plenty we could bring.
    Last edited by Fridge Magnet; 31st August 2014 at 18:05.

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  12. #484
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herald View Post
    And in our case what heavier equipment could we bring to the boondoggle? A few 105s? a few(very few) MRV's? its not like we have a regiment of Marders or Apache's we could bring into the Rear area.
    The advantage of UN ops is that you don't have to have them yourself.

    We have plenty that could be deployed

    Not sure what is currently deployed
    Last edited by DeV; 31st August 2014 at 18:06.

  13. #485
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    I suppose from a UNDOF point of view there shouldn't be any AEs within the AO (it being the Syrian army's job to keep them out).

    The only political pull the Irish (or any contributor) has is to threaten withdrawing the contingent. This could lead to a better mandate, heavier equipment being allowed or pressure being put on the Syrian and Israelis so the mission is no longer required.

    There is however no excuse for a lack of political will to even say difficult job well done
    The Austrians, Japanese and Croatians have all pulled out. The Fillipino's are pulling out over 300 troops in October.

    Still no sign of a better mandate.

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  15. #486
    Viking HavocIRL's Avatar
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    Another stupid question for our more enlightened members of the board. I know the Irish army has participated in EUFOR and UN missions. Have we taken part in any other ones? i.e. NATO and I'm not talking about cooperation but actually signing up for a tour under a NATO or other organisation mandate?

    And second stupid question. I'm familiar with EU, NATO and UN missions but what other multinational organisations can create these missions? I'm aware of African Union missions but are there any others?
    To close with and kill the enemy in all weather conditions, night and day and over any terrain

  16. #487
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    MOD: Lets keep it vague what the troops have and don't have out there.No commander EVER has eveything he/she would like to have.They could always have more but are 100% better equipped then when I first served in the region.In short we don't know who may be reading this.Lets keep our lads full capabilities as a nice surprise for any fool who tries to directly target them
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

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  18. #488
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    Another stupid question for our more enlightened members of the board. I know the Irish army has participated in EUFOR and UN missions. Have we taken part in any other ones? i.e. NATO and I'm not talking about cooperation but actually signing up for a tour under a NATO or other organisation mandate?
    KFOR,SFOR,ISAF all UN mandated but NATO led.Irish participate/d as members of PFP.
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

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  20. #489
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HavocIRL View Post
    Another stupid question for our more enlightened members of the board. I know the Irish army has participated in EUFOR and UN missions. Have we taken part in any other ones? i.e. NATO and I'm not talking about cooperation but actually signing up for a tour under a NATO or other organisation mandate?

    And second stupid question. I'm familiar with EU, NATO and UN missions but what other multinational organisations can create these missions? I'm aware of African Union missions but are there any others?

    IFOR/SFOR
    KFOR

    Both under NATO command

    INTERFET under Australian command

    Any regional organisation/country can do it (as far as the UN is concerned).
    There is a West African group of some description.

  21. #490
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herald View Post
    And in our case what heavier equipment could we bring to the boondoggle? A few 105s? a few(very few) MRV's? its not like we have a regiment of Marders or Apache's we could bring into the Rear area.
    a Battery of 105's, another of 120's, every 81mm you can dig out of the Armouries, Jav's, HMG's, and a pair of 139's to move them to wherever they need to be.

    the Irish Army is not short of land based combat power, its problem is getting it in place. even now, if Ireland asked for help others would provide the airlift you need to get some of this stuff inplace to re-establish the security of UNDOF, at which point you can have a debate about the future of UNDOF, or the Irish contribution to UNDOF.

    if you want to know how many L118's you can get on a C-17, the answer is lots - and a C-17 can fly from Baldonnel to Beruit in 6 hours. there might even still be the 4 Chinooks at RAF Akrotiri, just an hours flying time away...

  22. #491
    Commandant Come-quickly's Avatar
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    The army is short on kit for a force its size. But it does have enough of the right stuff to field a fairly savage light mech battle group albeit probably for an extended period due to the squeezing we've had as easy targets for cuts.
    "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

  23. #492
    Rittmeister Herald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    MOD: Lets keep it vague what the troops have and don't have out there.No commander EVER has eveything he/she would like to have.They could always have more but are 100% better equipped then when I first served in the region.In short we don't know who may be reading this.Lets keep our lads full capabilities as a nice surprise for any fool who tries to directly target them
    Point taken, Apologies all round.

  24. #493
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    Stoners are surprisingly quite an this one.

  25. #494
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    Calls for contingent of Irish troops to stay on with UN in Syria

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/0831/640...an-heights-un/

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  27. #495
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Of course, the aim of all this could be to get the larger better equipped & trained contingents to withdrawal and cause UNDOF to collapse

  28. #496
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Of course, the aim of all this could be to get the larger better equipped & trained contingents to withdrawal and cause UNDOF to collapse
    in which case its a pretty dumb strategy - if UNDOF ceases to exist then the border will be held by the Israeli's, and the Syrian's will be very happy to see the Israeli's use their normal lethal competance to ensure the security of the border from the hairies.

    perhaps the hairies see UNDOF as a source of free kit?

  29. #497
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    perhaps the hairies see UNDOF as a source of free kit?
    My sentiments exactly, I believe that weapons if captured would cause more deaths than killing those who try to capture them is doing the world a favour and for once the UN would be getting it right.
    Time for another break I think......

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  31. #498
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    Some of the comments from our politicos are somewhat concerning , I really think talk of withdrawal is very premature at this stage, the lads were probably only getting orders out there when there was talk of a wider review of the mission on Friday evening. I really,hope what I was talking about in post #380 ain't what's happening , a lot of suits have never wanted us there and this could be a great opportunity for them to get the lads home.

    Then we had some opposition politician clown on the six o clock news talking about an extension of the current contingent because " they are experienced out there " .First of all , such ideas or decisions are for the military to make a recommendation to the minister , secondly ,and to me more importantly , the lads have just had the most challenging operational part of their tour ( perhaps careers) and as they sit down to watch the news from home ( the Dubs through gritted teeth) , some politician is offering them an extension they didn't ask for !!! Well done that man ,please google morale before making stupid sound bites on the six o clock news.

    As for talk of upgunning the mission , I seem to remember that there is a specific reference in the mandate to calibre of weapon allowed , I think 20mm is the limit ( this is all in the public domain) any change would have to go through the security council and a new mandate agreed......don't hold your breath for the 105s .

    It's been a tough few days for the lads out there and they need our support not hasty decisions or a rush for the easy sound bite.

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  33. #499
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    actually, despite the FF halfwit not really having the full story, he's not just got a point, but he's helpful - the DoD, Government and UN need to give this mission some serious thought, and not having to do a troop rotation in the middle of it makes life easier.

    he's giving the government political cover to extend the tour, to reinforce, or to back off, and for planners and their political masters being able to do soley what you think is best without having to weave in the domestic political considerations is a godsend. extending the tour in these circumstances is militarily sensible, it would also allow the force to be doubled for a limited period of time should that be required.

    being intensely practical, every bloke who turns up is a bloke who has to be taught the lie of the land, and every bloke who is brought up is taking up space that could perhaps be better taken by boxes of 7.62.

    tbh, i'm somewhat amazed at the standard of media/political reaction - i'd expected almost unanimous calls for Irish troops to be withdrawn, right now, this instant, and the others calling for Irish soldiers who had fried their weapons to be tried for murder...

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  35. #500
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ropebag View Post
    in which case its a pretty dumb strategy - if UNDOF ceases to exist then the border will be held by the Israeli's, and the Syrian's will be very happy to see the Israeli's use their normal lethal competance to ensure the security of the border from the hairies.

    perhaps the hairies see UNDOF as a source of free kit?
    And one of the main aims of AQ is to destroy who?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Booted Man View Post
    Some of the comments from our politicos are somewhat concerning , I really think talk of withdrawal is very premature at this stage, the lads were probably only getting orders out there when there was talk of a wider review of the mission on Friday evening. I really,hope what I was talking about in post #380 ain't what's happening , a lot of suits have never wanted us there and this could be a great opportunity for them to get the lads home.

    Then we had some opposition politician clown on the six o clock news talking about an extension of the current contingent because " they are experienced out there " .First of all , such ideas or decisions are for the military to make a recommendation to the minister , secondly ,and to me more importantly , the lads have just had the most challenging operational part of their tour ( perhaps careers) and as they sit down to watch the news from home ( the Dubs through gritted teeth) , some politician is offering them an extension they didn't ask for !!! Well done that man ,please google morale before making stupid sound bites on the six o clock news.

    As for talk of upgunning the mission , I seem to remember that there is a specific reference in the mandate to calibre of weapon allowed , I think 20mm is the limit ( this is all in the public domain) any change would have to go through the security council and a new mandate agreed......don't hold your breath for the 105s .

    It's been a tough few days for the lads out there and they need our support not hasty decisions or a rush for the easy sound bite.
    Let's hope they stay safe for the remainder of their trip (however long that may be) - same for the incoming group

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