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  • Originally posted by DeV View Post
    Of course, the aim of all this could be to get the larger better equipped & trained contingents to withdrawal and cause UNDOF to collapse
    in which case its a pretty dumb strategy - if UNDOF ceases to exist then the border will be held by the Israeli's, and the Syrian's will be very happy to see the Israeli's use their normal lethal competance to ensure the security of the border from the hairies.

    perhaps the hairies see UNDOF as a source of free kit?

    Comment


    • perhaps the hairies see UNDOF as a source of free kit?
      My sentiments exactly, I believe that weapons if captured would cause more deaths than killing those who try to capture them is doing the world a favour and for once the UN would be getting it right.
      Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

      Comment


      • Some of the comments from our politicos are somewhat concerning , I really think talk of withdrawal is very premature at this stage, the lads were probably only getting orders out there when there was talk of a wider review of the mission on Friday evening. I really,hope what I was talking about in post #380 ain't what's happening , a lot of suits have never wanted us there and this could be a great opportunity for them to get the lads home.

        Then we had some opposition politician clown on the six o clock news talking about an extension of the current contingent because " they are experienced out there " .First of all , such ideas or decisions are for the military to make a recommendation to the minister , secondly ,and to me more importantly , the lads have just had the most challenging operational part of their tour ( perhaps careers) and as they sit down to watch the news from home ( the Dubs through gritted teeth) , some politician is offering them an extension they didn't ask for !!! Well done that man ,please google morale before making stupid sound bites on the six o clock news.

        As for talk of upgunning the mission , I seem to remember that there is a specific reference in the mandate to calibre of weapon allowed , I think 20mm is the limit ( this is all in the public domain) any change would have to go through the security council and a new mandate agreed......don't hold your breath for the 105s .

        It's been a tough few days for the lads out there and they need our support not hasty decisions or a rush for the easy sound bite.

        Comment


        • actually, despite the FF halfwit not really having the full story, he's not just got a point, but he's helpful - the DoD, Government and UN need to give this mission some serious thought, and not having to do a troop rotation in the middle of it makes life easier.

          he's giving the government political cover to extend the tour, to reinforce, or to back off, and for planners and their political masters being able to do soley what you think is best without having to weave in the domestic political considerations is a godsend. extending the tour in these circumstances is militarily sensible, it would also allow the force to be doubled for a limited period of time should that be required.

          being intensely practical, every bloke who turns up is a bloke who has to be taught the lie of the land, and every bloke who is brought up is taking up space that could perhaps be better taken by boxes of 7.62.

          tbh, i'm somewhat amazed at the standard of media/political reaction - i'd expected almost unanimous calls for Irish troops to be withdrawn, right now, this instant, and the others calling for Irish soldiers who had fried their weapons to be tried for murder...

          Comment


          • Originally posted by ropebag View Post
            in which case its a pretty dumb strategy - if UNDOF ceases to exist then the border will be held by the Israeli's, and the Syrian's will be very happy to see the Israeli's use their normal lethal competance to ensure the security of the border from the hairies.

            perhaps the hairies see UNDOF as a source of free kit?
            And one of the main aims of AQ is to destroy who?

            Originally posted by Jack Booted Man View Post
            Some of the comments from our politicos are somewhat concerning , I really think talk of withdrawal is very premature at this stage, the lads were probably only getting orders out there when there was talk of a wider review of the mission on Friday evening. I really,hope what I was talking about in post #380 ain't what's happening , a lot of suits have never wanted us there and this could be a great opportunity for them to get the lads home.

            Then we had some opposition politician clown on the six o clock news talking about an extension of the current contingent because " they are experienced out there " .First of all , such ideas or decisions are for the military to make a recommendation to the minister , secondly ,and to me more importantly , the lads have just had the most challenging operational part of their tour ( perhaps careers) and as they sit down to watch the news from home ( the Dubs through gritted teeth) , some politician is offering them an extension they didn't ask for !!! Well done that man ,please google morale before making stupid sound bites on the six o clock news.

            As for talk of upgunning the mission , I seem to remember that there is a specific reference in the mandate to calibre of weapon allowed , I think 20mm is the limit ( this is all in the public domain) any change would have to go through the security council and a new mandate agreed......don't hold your breath for the 105s .

            It's been a tough few days for the lads out there and they need our support not hasty decisions or a rush for the easy sound bite.
            Let's hope they stay safe for the remainder of their trip (however long that may be) - same for the incoming group

            Comment


            • Originally posted by DeV View Post
              And one of the main aims of AQ is to destroy who?...
              the House of Saud.

              Comment


              • Ropebag, whilst I do understand that an extension might be required in due course, my point is that it is none of a politicians business . I really think that the guys working in operations and logs admin in DFHQ might have guessed that we might have to do some contingency planning to postpone the rotation and will no doubt discuss with the minster ( I actually am somewhat conflicted if it should even be a political decision).

                We did it during Grapes of Wrath in the Leb and we extended a tour in KFOR for elections and I know I got an extra two weeks un-requested in another wonderful part of the world but the key term is we.....we could fundamentally misunderstand how Irish politicians work if you think this chap is doing this in the best interests of the military or to provide political cover, he is doing it for coverage and to score a political point if an extension is required he can crow it was FF's idea.

                I really think as we don't tell them how to bankrupt the country they shouldn't tell us how to operationally run overseas missions.....

                Comment


                • I'm reminded of an expression I heard once "There is nothing more annoying than a nut-job with a point"...
                  'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
                  'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
                  Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
                  He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
                  http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

                  Comment


                  • What happened with the Fijjis
                    Looking at the MAP I think they where in a post facing the Israel side .

                    What was they role?
                    Where they armed?
                    Where they taken by surpirse?

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Jack Booted Man View Post
                      ...they shouldn't tell us how to operationally run overseas missions.....
                      you may as well get used to it - Ireland's, err... novel domestic political mania/debate around any defence issue means that pretty much everything about any mission, operation, exercise or soldier scratching his balls is intensly political. stuff that raises not a flicker elsewhere is open season in Ireland from what weapons they take to what colour uniforms they wear to what nationality the airlift is.

                      politicians point score, thats what they do - complaining about it is like complaining about dogs pissing on lamposts. if the government want to be seen as being in front of defence policy and not responding to this or that politically motivated 'helpful suggestion' from the opposition then they have to have talk about this kind of stuff first, rather than stay silent until badgered for comment by the media.

                      why nothing on Friday from the Taoiseach about 'an escalating situation.. fully capable.. every support.. absolute confidence..', why nothing from the DOD about 'continuous assessment.. every support.. consultation with international partners.. all options on the table.. every faith..'? if you want to look like you're trailling behind, by all means let the (utterly discredited) opposition get their statement out first.

                      Comment


                      • I never heard of any political involvement in:
                        - what weapons are brought (involvement with UN where a blue hatted mission)
                        - what uniform is worn (not an issue since DPM (around 2001)
                        - who provides airlift (it's contracted out to civvies)

                        In fairness to the Minister, he did praise the troops on the radio this morning (but it should have been done a few days ago), as with many Western countries now force protection is more important than the mission.

                        I also have a strong belief that a lot of this is for the UN benefit - if we pull out there is a strong possibility the mission with have to withdraw (the Minister said that this morning)

                        The "funny" bit is that we are protesting to Syria, so we are telling them to stop the rebels
                        Last edited by DeV; 1 September 2014, 14:15.

                        Comment


                        • If what Ive heard is true, we should be thanking Syria too for shelling rebel positions to cover the Fillipinos withdrawal back in safe hands.
                          "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
                          "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

                          Comment


                          • And just weeks ago, some were shouting for the Syrian army to be crushed. In this region, the enemy is not obvious. The man in black is not, like in the old westerns, always the bad guy..
                            For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by morpheus View Post
                              If what Ive heard is true, we should be thanking Syria too for shelling rebel positions to cover the Fillipinos withdrawal back in safe hands.
                              I've heard Israel also lent a hand for fire support
                              To close with and kill the enemy in all weather conditions, night and day and over any terrain

                              Comment


                              • I heard the same, syria shelled the area where the rebels where as the fillipinos pulled out and as they and the rest of the UN force met up and made their way towards the israeli side of the crossing, Israel took over the fire support. US was involved at some level too although ive not heard much about that yet.
                                "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
                                "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

                                Comment

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