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  1. #101
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Jungle;399628]Dude, I don't need the history lessons... nothing to do with ROEs ??

    100% agree, the only certainty in life is that the UN will sell you down the river, the UN will fcuk you over and then fukc you over again if it means some UN official with 2 4 x4s gets to look big and get a promotion.

    I have served with the UN and I have served with PFP/ NATO and NATO take no shit from man woman or child- conditions are better, grub is better and you can bet your bollox that NATO will send the nearest aircraft carrier to your rescue should you need it- where as the UN keeps business hours and wouldn't scratch it's arse for you unless there was a chance of a UN official getting a bigger apartment.

    The UN have no interest in peacekeeping or its peacekeepers- who here has visited the UN Hq in NY- and you see the exhibits about saving this asshole saving that crud poxy town, giving a fortune to some tyrant in Africa and pretending its food aid etc, yet there is no UN peacekeepers exhibition.

    I hate the UN just as much as I hate Sinn Fein / ira, both are full of gangsters and both have caused the deaths of civilians and soldiers.
    Last edited by hedgehog; 6th August 2013 at 18:21.

  2. #102
    Commandant Come-quickly's Avatar
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    Yet we merrily suborned our security policy to them in a classic game of pacifist false morality.

    Ho hum
    "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

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  4. #103
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by trellheim View Post
    Anyone got a breakdown of UNDOF establishment with/without the Austrians involved ? I can't get the number to add.
    Establishment (Authorised strength in UN speak) is unchanged - 1250

    30 Jun 13 - 835
    Austria - 117
    Fiji - 182
    India - 193
    Ireland - 3
    Philippines - 340

    31 May 13 - 908
    Austria - 374
    India - 193
    Philippines - 341

    31 Jan 13 - 1001
    Austria - 377
    Croatia - 97
    India - 195
    Philippines - 342

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  6. #104
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    [QUOTE=hedgehog;399642]
    Quote Originally Posted by Jungle View Post
    Dude, I don't need the history lessons... nothing to do with ROEs ??

    100% agree, the only certainty in life is that the UN will sell you down the river, the UN will fcuk you over and then fukc you over again if it means some UN official with 2 4 x4s gets to look big and get a promotion.

    I have served with the UN and I have served with PFP/ NATO and NATO take no shit from man woman or child- conditions are better, grub is better and you can bet your bollox that NATO will send the nearest aircraft carrier to your rescue should you need it- where as the UN keeps business hours and wouldn't scratch it's arse for you unless there was a chance of a UN official getting a bigger apartment.

    The UN have no interest in peacekeeping or its peacekeepers- who here has visited the UN Hq in NY- and you see the exhibits about saving this asshole saving that crud poxy town, giving a fortune to some tyrant in Africa and pretending its food aid etc, yet there is no UN peacekeepers exhibition.

    I hate the UN just as much as I hate Sinn Fein / ira, both are full of gangsters and both have caused the deaths of civilians and soldiers.
    Except for the political rant re Sinn Fein I tend to agree ,
    Another poster mentioned the UN ordering a unit to surrender , The example of the UN and the Dutch etc it is not a very reassuring scenario when troops are going to such a volatile area.

  7. #105
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    our 30mm are not going .. this makes me sad

  8. #106
    Private 3* Jungle's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=BANDIT;399658]
    Quote Originally Posted by hedgehog View Post
    Another poster mentioned the UN ordering a unit to surrender , The example of the UN and the Dutch etc it is not a very reassuring scenario when troops are going to such a volatile area.
    That was me; the rant is not mine though...

    The 90s were a disaster for UN PK ops; things have changed dramatically since. Look at the following doc to see contributing nations in those OPS now:

    Ranking of Military and Police
    Contributions to UN Operations


    It's obvious that Western countries have given up on large UN PK OPS.
    "On the plains of hesitation, bleach the bones of countless millions, who on the very dawn of victory, laid down to rest, and in resting died.

    Never give up!!"

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  10. #107
    Commandant Come-quickly's Avatar
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    No point in risking them being used to blow something up I suppose...
    "It is a general popular error to imagine that loudest complainers for the public to be the most anxious for it's welfare" Edmund Burke

  11. #108
    Private 3* Jungle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Come-quickly View Post
    No point in risking them being used to blow something up I suppose...
    The risk of blowing up is not a show stopper; restrictive ROEs, lack of support and intestinal fortitude are.
    "On the plains of hesitation, bleach the bones of countless millions, who on the very dawn of victory, laid down to rest, and in resting died.

    Never give up!!"

  12. #109
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jungle View Post
    The 90s were a disaster for UN PK ops; things have changed dramatically since. Look at the following doc to see contributing nations in those OPS now:

    It's obvious that Western countries have given up on large UN PK OPS.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jungle View Post
    The risk of blowing up is not a show stopper; restrictive ROEs, lack of support and intestinal fortitude are.

    Yes, in most cases they have stopped intervening altogether!

    The UNSC currently are:
    China - 1782 troops & police - 16th
    France - 954 troops & police - 25th
    Russian Federation - 100 troops & police - 63rd
    United Kingdom - 282 troops & police - 44th
    United States - 101 troops & police - 62nd
    Argentina - 866 troops & police - 28th
    Australia - 58 troops & police - 73rd
    Azerbaijan - None
    Guatemala - 303 troops & police - 42nd
    Luxembourg - None
    Morocco - 1586 troops & police - 18th
    Pakistan - 8230 troops & police - 1st
    Republic of Korea - 615 troops & police - 31st
    Rwanda - 4686 troops & police - 5th
    Togo - 709 troops & police - 29th


    These are the countries that are currently responsible for setting up UN missions or giving mandates to regional organisations.

    The first 5 are the Permanent members so they are always there, so they have been involved in setting up EVERY UN mission yet they will not provide troops.

    If a new mission was established tomorrow to say Syria, it is the countries in the list above that create the restrictive ROE, fail to provide support etc.

    There are 15 countries there, there is actually UN missions in 2 of those countries and one of them is the biggest contributor! Guess what it isn't a Western country.

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  14. #110
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    http://rt.com/news/syria-chemical-weapons-un-775/


    (Reuters) - Syrian activists accused President Bashar al-Assad's forces of launching a gas attack that killed more than 200 people on Wednesday, in what would, if confirmed, be by far the worst reported use of chemical arms in the two-year-old civil war.

    Images, including some taken by photographers working for Reuters, showed scores of bodies including of small children, laid out on the floor of a medical clinic with no visible signs of injuries. Reuters was not independently able to verify the cause of their death.

    Syrian state television denied government forces had used poison gas and said the accusations were intended to distract a team of United Nations chemical weapons experts which arrived three days ago.

  15. #111
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    http://www.therevoltingsyrian.com/po...re-of-damascus

    Link is to pictures from the attack including dead children so NSFW.

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  17. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schmigs View Post
    http://www.therevoltingsyrian.com/po...re-of-damascus

    Link is to pictures from the attack including dead children so NSFW.
    There is something very odd about this. Why would the Syrian Government carry out a chemical attack just a few days after they let UN chemical weapons inspectors into the country? They have nothing to gain from such an attack but everything to lose. My suspicions would say the 'Free Syrian Army' carried out this attack, blaming it on the Government in order to try and get western support now that the UN inspectors are in town.

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  19. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhodes View Post
    There is something very odd about this. Why would the Syrian Government carry out a chemical attack just a few days after they let UN chemical weapons inspectors into the country? They have nothing to gain from such an attack but everything to lose. My suspicions would say the 'Free Syrian Army' carried out this attack, blaming it on the Government in order to try and get western support now that the UN inspectors are in town.
    The problem is no one knows and there are lots of possibilities and combinations , Free syrian army, factions within and with out, the Syrian army, factions within and without, Israel, etc and now we are sending out troops to an environment such as this ?? Madness

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  21. #114
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    Al Jazerra have excellent interactive maps on Syria. Good background info.

    http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/int...riadefections/

    http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/int...552345899.html

  22. #115
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Interesting interview from a retire US Naval Officer this morning where he reckons that the use of poisin gas, possibly Sarin, in this case is probably more humane than other forms of warfare that would have killed these people anyway.

    he reckons Poison Gas will not fall under WMD classification due to its tactical use and thus response will be probably be limited.

    Another guy reckons maximum reaction will be a couple of cruise missiles from the Yanks.

    This thaing has grown a few arms that no one is happy about, The 'Free Army' are being propped up by Saudi, but are not in a position to make big enough gains to win outright so they've fallen in with Al Queeda, who are being backed by Iran, but Irans new president and the Saudis are friendly so Iran will be told to butt out.

    NATO etc, will now give up on the Free Army as they certainly don't want to propping up friends of Al Queeda. The Russians and Cinese who are propping up the president as they don't give a shit about anyone, so its not going to end anytime soon, and everybody turning up on the borders to take a peek will be shitting themselves in case they area caught in a Sarin attack.

    'Fraid this one is going to have to sort itself out.
    Just visiting

  23. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    This thaing has grown a few arms that no one is happy about, The 'Free Army' are being propped up by Saudi, but are not in a position to make big enough gains to win outright so they've fallen in with Al Queeda, who are being backed by Iran, but Irans new president and the Saudis are friendly so Iran will be told to butt out.
    The two main states backing the Free Syrian Army/Al-Qaeda are Saudi Arabia and Qatar. Iran is most certainly not supporting Al-Qaeda or any of its factions.

    Last week the retiring head of the CIA said the current biggest threat to US security would be the Syrian government falling and Syria becoming an Al-Qaeda Islamist state.

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  25. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhodes View Post
    The two main states backing the Free Syrian Army/Al-Qaeda are Saudi Arabia and Qatar. Iran is most certainly not supporting Al-Qaeda or any of its factions.

    Last week the retiring head of the CIA said the current biggest threat to US security would be the Syrian government falling and Syria becoming an Al-Qaeda Islamist state.
    And we are sending our troops there? Its not worth one drop of Irish soldiers blood. By all meANS let the US, Brits, French, China, Russia SEND THEIR SOLDIERS they created Syria and some maintained it.
    I really will be pissed off if I hear a news report of irish troops being killed or injured . I always remember the first casulties in the Leb , Guys I knew , For what
    HH i NEED YOUR KEYBOARD ELEQUENCE ON THIS.

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  27. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by BANDIT View Post
    And we are sending our troops there? Its not worth one drop of Irish soldiers blood. By all meANS let the US, Brits, French, China, Russia SEND THEIR SOLDIERS they created Syria and some maintained it.
    I really will be pissed off if I hear a news report of irish troops being killed or injured . I always remember the first casulties in the Leb , Guys I knew , For what
    HH i NEED YOUR KEYBOARD ELEQUENCE ON THIS.
    The five permanent members of the UN Security Council cant be part of UNDOF. Russia offered troops to replace the Austrians, arguing that when UNDOF was established it was the USSR that was a permanent member and not the Russian Federation but the offer was turned down.

  28. #119
    Lt Colonel Connaught Stranger's Avatar
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    Irish Mercenaries Training Syrian Death Squads!!

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/irish-m...squads/5346204

    Some of the crap thats out there, which could cause the Irish to be targeted.

    Connaught Stranger.

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  30. #120
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Iran is most certainly not supporting Al-Qaeda or any of its factions

    Read whats I've written not what you think you see.The Free Army is being supported by Iran via Saudi, Al Queeda are the third force using the situation via the Free Army to establish a foothold .The new Iranian president is friendly with the Saudis, and the Saudis don't want to be seen to be allied with anything that Al Queeda would benifit from even if the relation ship is remote.
    Just visiting

  31. #121
    Viking HavocIRL's Avatar
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    3 Questions I have that concern me, especially since I have friends who have volunteered for that mission.

    Will the mission still go ahead with a genuine CBRN threat like this?

    Will the army invest in proper PPE and decontamination gear for the mission? Seeing as they can't even get a shipment of desert boots right.

    And finally what medical treatment will they get pre-deployment for this mission? I'm not fully aware of whats required medically for CBRN protection but along the lines of preventative tablets etc.
    To close with and kill the enemy in all weather conditions, night and day and over any terrain

  32. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    Read whats I've written not what you think you see.The Free Army is being supported by Iran via Saudi, Al Queeda are the third force using the situation via the Free Army to establish a foothold .The new Iranian president is friendly with the Saudis, and the Saudis don't want to be seen to be allied with anything that Al Queeda would benifit from even if the relation ship is remote.
    Iran is not supporting the Free Syrian Army, they support the Syrian Government.

  33. #123
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    That is just one of the the problems , no one knows who is supporting who, Its a murky business..
    Just think of how Israel supported Hamas to widen the gap with Fatah,There are so many agendas taht I am afraid the UN or anyone for that matter is poorly equipped to manage, never mind resolve.

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  35. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by BANDIT View Post
    That is just one of the the problems , no one knows who is supporting who, Its a murky business..
    Just think of how Israel supported Hamas to widen the gap with Fatah,There are so many agendas taht I am afraid the UN or anyone for that matter is poorly equipped to manage, never mind resolve.
    Sounds just like the Leb in the early days then, where there were so many flavours of groups that it was hard to keep track

    Walid Jumblat (or Wally as my da used to say) was one of the names I remember cropping up frequently on the news years ago when
    items regarding the Leb were on the news...
    "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

  36. #125
    Hostage Flamingo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Connaught Stranger View Post
    Irish Mercenaries Training Syrian Death Squads!!

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/irish-m...squads/5346204

    Some of the crap thats out there, which could cause the Irish to be targeted.

    Connaught Stranger.
    Jeez, that guy needs a new tin-foil hat!
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

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