Around 1,300 soldiers receiving supplementary welfare payments - PDFORRA

[danno]

At least there has (AFAIK) been no medical costs/card issues raised by PDFORA ,maybe only thing DF has going for it.

[DeV]

At least there has (AFAIK) been no medical costs/card issues raised by PDFORA ,maybe only thing DF has going for it.

You mean like saying to its members that they aren't qualified to answer questions on their medical history in the pre-med and the DFTC family clinic being closed down?

[hptmurphy]

At least there has (AFAIK) been no medical costs/card issues raised by PDFORA ,maybe only thing DF has going for it.

Qualify for FIS, you'll get a medical card too. Probably keeping quiet on this one because it suits.

[Fridge Magnet]

RACO caused uproar when junior officers who were going to college in Dublin were placed in those container units(Names misleading) for their accommodation.

They were ten times nicer than anything the enlisted personnel were billeted in. And junior officers know they're going to be moved around the first few years and so don't sprout roots.

While I agree that you signed a contract to go wherever you were ordered to go some give and take should be done for certain individuals. If a unit can transfer someone then transfer them. There are some genuine cases where guys have been screwed over with barrack closures and being automatically transferred and they do have my sympathy.

But then again there are cases of individual stupidity who I have no sympathy for.

For example we had one guy from the North, fresh out of recruit training who put in for a transfer to Donegal and about two weeks later bought a house up there. Nobody told him he was getting a transfer and he just assumed he'd get it. I know people who just flatly told him he wasn't getting it when he put in for it. Then he was shocked to find he wasn't getting it. Cue him asking for interviews with the GOC to talk about this miscarriage of justice.

Living in a container, regardless of how it looks, is still living in a container.

It also has zero to do with what I posted.

[HavocIRL]

Living in a container, regardless of how it looks, is still living in a container.

It also has zero to do with what I posted.

Living in a 4 man shithole with no heating, failing plumbing and no lock on the door, regardless of calling it the Privates Billets, is still living in a 4 man shithole with no heating, failing plumbing and no lock on the door.

As I already stated calling them 'Container' units was a misleading name because they were pretty nice. I specifically remember being on a work party stocking them with bedding and furniture and every Private to a man there said they would swap billets in a heartbeat. I even remember when RACO whinged about it and they were getting axed that some Privates were asking the BQ could they move into them.

You stated that RACO never brought up 'being moved around the barracks on a needs of the army basis'. I addressed that by saying 'junior officers know they're going to be moved around the first few years and so don't sprout roots'. I had a mate who did his Cadetship and was specifically warned not to buy any property for a good few years while at the Cadet school by numerous instructors. Did anyone give you or I sound financial advice during our Recruit Training?

Unlike Officers, enlisted personnel for the most part once they get to a unit/barracks are there for their careers. And usually when they do move barracks/units they have some control over where with postings/transfers/courses etc.

While I concede that nothing is written in stone and they have agreed to move around on a 'Needs of the Army' basis as per their contract. There should be concessions made for personnel who've been affected by barrack closures where possible.

xoxoxoxo

[na grohmiti]

Living in a container, regardless of how it looks, is still living in a container.

It also has zero to do with what I posted.

I stayed in a campsite in france some years ago in what the brochure called a "Chalet". To me it was a mobile home with the wheels removed. The Travelling community would call it a trailer. RACO would call it a container.

[GoneToTheCanner]

The one abiding characteristic of barrack housing for Privates is that it is invariably shit because everybody evades responsibility for cleaning and maintaining it and it has the lowest priority for upkeep. When you saw what the NS were prepared to put their people in, that the Prison Service refused to use, was a stand-out dereliction of duty by the Staff and the DF and the Minister.....with regard to containers, many, many people live in properly fitted out containers worldwide and there is an entire housing estate in Amsterdam built of them. So what did become of those containers, once the junior officers vacated them?

[HavocIRL]

To the best of my knowledge they're still there. I'm open to correction.

I know that I helped furnish them and then de-furnish them, in a textbook Military manoeuvre known as on the bus, off the bus.

[northie]

Living in a 4 man shithole with no heating, failing plumbing and no lock on the door, regardless of calling it the Privates Billets, is still living in a 4 man shithole with no heating, failing plumbing and no lock on the door.

As I already stated calling them 'Container' units was a misleading name because they were pretty nice. I specifically remember being on a work party stocking them with bedding and furniture and every Private to a man there said they would swap billets in a heartbeat. I even remember when RACO whinged about it and they were getting axed that some Privates were asking the BQ could they move into them.

You stated that RACO never brought up 'being moved around the barracks on a needs of the army basis'. I addressed that by saying 'junior officers know they're going to be moved around the first few years and so don't sprout roots'. I had a mate who did his Cadetship and was specifically warned not to buy any property for a good few years while at the Cadet school by numerous instructors. Did anyone give you or I sound financial advice during our Recruit Training?

Unlike Officers, enlisted personnel for the most part once they get to a unit/barracks are there for their careers. And usually when they do move barracks/units they have some control over where with postings/transfers/courses etc.

While I concede that nothing is written in stone and they have agreed to move around on a 'Needs of the Army' basis as per their contract. There should be concessions made for personnel who've been affected by barrack closures where possible.

xoxoxoxo

The adversarial nature of representation means that each RA is responsible for its own members welfare - four privates living in substandard conditions is down to inaction by the military authorities, but it is also incumbent on PDFORRA to raise the issue. RACO were much more successful in using TD's etc to raise the issue in question. At the end of the day, substandard accommodation is substandard and its down to the RA's to raise the issue.

I've slept in similar and whilst nicely furnished, they tend to cool very rapidly as they tend to be poorly insulated. To the best of my knowledge these units have been scattered around the country, there a few in Kilbride etc.

As I said previously is that everyone, no matter whether they are commissioned ranks or enlisted ranks at some stage goes through attestation when they join the DF and they are asked if they understand that they can be asked to serve out their military service at any location both inside and outside the country. The answer that the candidate gives is recorded. Its there in black and white.

Much like the 21 year rule people signed up to terms and conditions and there are now howls of outrage now that the rules are being enforced.

[DeV]

The adversarial nature of representation means that each RA is responsible for its own members welfare - four privates living in substandard conditions is down to inaction by the military authorities, but it is also incumbent on PDFORRA to raise the issue. RACO were much more successful in using TD's etc to raise the issue in question. At the end of the day, substandard accommodation is substandard and its down to the RA's to raise the issue.

I've slept in similar and whilst nicely furnished, they tend to cool very rapidly as they tend to be poorly insulated. To the best of my knowledge these units have been scattered around the country, there a few in Kilbride etc.

As I said previously is that everyone, no matter whether they are commissioned ranks or enlisted ranks at some stage goes through attestation when they join the DF and they are asked if they understand that they can be asked to serve out their military service at any location both inside and outside the country. The answer that the candidate gives is recorded. Its there in black and white.

Much like the 21 year rule people signed up to terms and conditions and there are now howls of outrage now that the rules are being enforced.

If people are living in substandard accomodiation IMHO it is down to SNCOs and officers not doing their jobs!

[Pure Hover]

The job of the RAs is to highlight issues affecting the welfare of their members, primarily pay and allowances. As this avenue has been effectively shutdown with Croke Park etc the focus has shifted elsewhere and this time to accommodation and commuting. You have to aplaud PDRORRA's efforts in this regard in highlighting an issue that's becoming one of those "should I stay or should I go" issues for all ranks.
Underpinning all of this is of course the continuing erosion of basic pay and allowances for many members and their dependence on overseas trips and FIS to make a decent wage!

[northie]

If people are living in substandard accomodiation IMHO it is down to SNCOs and officers not doing their jobs!

See my line about inaction by the military authorities as being a reason. Lack of funds for capital projects is also a reason well.

[hptmurphy]

highlighting an issue that's becoming one of those "should I stay or should I go" issues for all ranks.
Underpinning all of this is of course the continuing erosion of basic pay and allowances for many members and their dependence on overseas trips and FIS to make a decent wage!

One would have to consider if this was a concerted effort by the department to reduce the number in the DF by economic erosion. No doubt it would suit to have a DF whose lower echelons were on a low basic wage, who could not afford to buy property or have families and who would move on after initial contracts.

This happened in the past and it wasn't always those whose light shone the brightest who stayed on, causing problems for the DF for up to two decades later.

If pay is going to be low things like welfare have to be improved and if needs be a reintroduction of good quality single and married quarters at all locations preventing people having to get into heavy mortgages.Guys could then be redeployed around the country without issue around housing. Child care being another issue that would need to be addressed to allow partners to return to work and avoid huge child care payments.

[northie]

O

If pay is going to be low things like welfare have to be improved and if needs be a reintroduction of good quality single and married quarters at all locations preventing people having to get into heavy mortgages.Guys could then be redeployed around the country without issue around housing. Child care being another issue that would need to be addressed to allow partners to return to work and avoid huge child care payments.

Agreed, however overholding would need to be dealt with ruthlessly.

[hptmurphy]

Agreed, however overholding would need to be dealt with ruthlessly.

Contract finished, house gone, three months notice.