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  • #31
    The weekend issue is a red herring. I can probably count the amount of leave I have granted people where they took a weekend that they didnt need to. In effect if you use your leave properly you will have 5.5weeks annual leave plus a potential carry over which varies by rank

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    • #32
      Originally posted by midnight oil View Post
      PDFORRA are nit seaking ammendments. Ammendments are being thrust upon the DF by DOD, well by one individual in DOD, the one that has actually stated that the DOD would be in a much better position without the DF.
      Did someone really say that?

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Fridge Magnet View Post
        Did someone really say that?
        Yip and he is now at the highest levels within the civil service with an axe to grind.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by midnight oil View Post
          Ammendments are being thrust upon the DF by DOD, well by one individual in DOD, the one that has actually stated that the DOD would be in a much better position without the DF....

          .....Yip and he is now at the highest levels within the civil service with an axe to grind.
          Wow.

          Is that on record somewhere? Is this the same chap who used to be in the Civil Defence?

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by midnight oil View Post
            PDFORRA are nit seaking ammendments. Ammendments are being thrust upon the DF by DOD, well by one individual in DOD, the one that has actually stated that the DOD would be in a much better position without the DF.

            With regards overseas return leave, you get 30 days. If you do 2months you get 30days. If you do 1 yearnyou get 30 days. This is an automatic lesve entitlement that cannot be cancelled (unless there is a state of emergency when all bets are off).

            The DF leave is very simple. You start with X leave. You can carry over Y days and if you go overseas you lose Z days per konth (fluctuates by rank)
            it's unfortunate someone at the top is applying Leave in this manner, because that's the best example i have seen of how unfair and disproportionate the current Leave system is. a fairer system would be the less you serve Overseas the less Leave you earn, the more you serve Overseas the more Leave you earn.

            if you applied a similar system to ours and that proposed by PDFORRA in your example - then you would get the following:

            4 months = 13 days Leave = 2 weeks and 3 days Leave
            6 months = 20 days Leave = 4 weeks Leave
            12months = 40 days Leave = 8 weeks Leave

            Originally posted by midnight oil View Post
            The weekend issue is a red herring. I can probably count the amount of leave I have granted people where they took a weekend that they didnt need to. In effect if you use your leave properly you will have 5.5weeks annual leave plus a potential carry over which varies by rank
            not really - because if you need to take it - then you have to take it, i.e. - if you want to go away on holiday for lets say 4 weeks - you would need to use all of your 28 day entitlement giving you just 4 weeks off and none remaining for the year, whereas in a system that does not include weekends you would only use 20 days of your Leave and still have another week and a half off aswell as the 4 you just took.

            as for the current Leave system being simple when it involves losing a certain amount of Annual Leave based on time Overseas dependent on Rank, and having to include weekends as part of - i don't see how it is. a far simpler system for example would be:

            regardless of rank or time served - you ALL get 38 days Leave per year, if you go on tour you will get more (at a rate of 1 day extra for 9 days away), and weekends are never included as Leave.

            job done.

            i really cannot see how some of you seem to think the current Leave system in the ONH is fair, proportionate, generous or simple (and a better system is 'shit') when a much fairer, more proportionate, more generous and far less complicated Leave system is easily achieved and hopefully PDFORRA are taking a step in the right direction to implement it.

            i am highlighting what can be achieved and is already out there elsewhere (and in most cases would benefit you greatly), i am comparing a Leave system, not an army or nation.
            Last edited by RoyalGreenJacket; 26 November 2013, 11:10.
            RGJ

            ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

            The Rifles

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            • #36
              The proposed amendment is 20days, no weekends. So it is a max of 4weeks. The current system allows over a week and a half more so is fairer.

              It is certainly not the case you are making to give people more leave. If there is a leave adjustment then people will only lose out and not gain.

              The comment I refer to was referenced in a speach by the Gen Sec of RACO, the original comment was made somewhere within the last 5 years but I have neither time nor interest in searching for it

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              • #37
                Originally posted by midnight oil View Post
                The proposed amendment is 20days....
                ... which, funnily enough, is the Irish statutory leave entitlement
                "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

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                • #38
                  in that respect midnight oil then you may infact be disadvantaged, i thought (probably wrongly) they were aiming for 28 days (not 20) and NOT including weekends.

                  that would not be good.

                  however i still think the whole system should be fairer, more proportionate, more generous and less complicated as highlighted previously.
                  RGJ

                  ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

                  The Rifles

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by midnight oil View Post
                    PDFORRA are nit seaking ammendments. Ammendments are being thrust upon the DF by DOD, well by one individual in DOD, the one that has actually stated that the DOD would be in a much better position without the DF.

                    With regards overseas return leave, you get 30 days. If you do 2months you get 30days. If you do 1 yearnyou get 30 days. This is an automatic lesve entitlement that cannot be cancelled (unless there is a state of emergency when all bets are off).

                    The DF leave is very simple. You start with X leave. You can carry over Y days and if you go overseas you lose Z days per konth (fluctuates by rank)
                    In that case:
                    4 month tour = lose 4 days = net gain 26 days
                    6 month tour = lose 6 days = net gain 24 days
                    12 month tour = lose 12 days = net gain 18 days

                    Am I right?

                    If you take / are allowed leave during tour does that come out of annual leave?

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by DeV View Post
                      In that case:
                      4 month tour = lose 4 days = net gain 26 days
                      6 month tour = lose 6 days = net gain 24 days
                      12 month tour = lose 12 days = net gain 18 days

                      Am I right?

                      If you take / are allowed leave during tour does that come out of annual leave?

                      Well, put it to you like this Dev, anytime I've been overseas with the job, and took leave while away, it comes out of my annual entitlement
                      (just one bucket of hours for leave purposes, presumably much like any other job)

                      I'd be surprised if the PDF was any different
                      "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by DeV View Post
                        In that case:
                        4 month tour = lose 4 days = net gain 26 days
                        6 month tour = lose 6 days = net gain 24 days
                        12 month tour = lose 12 days = net gain 18 days

                        Am I right?

                        If you take / are allowed leave during tour does that come out of annual leave?
                        what are you referring to here? [the word 'The' removed after Goldie pointing out I used it in error] ONH don't have an equivalent proportionate system.

                        in our system - R&R (Leave taken during an Operational Tour) is granted in addition to Annual Leave.
                        Last edited by RoyalGreenJacket; 26 November 2013, 15:02.
                        RGJ

                        ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

                        The Rifles

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          There is no "The" in your use of ONH. It makes as much sense as saying ATM Machine.


                          Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Goldie fish View Post
                            There is no "The" in your use of ONH.
                            since edited and removed, apologies for any distress this may have caused.
                            RGJ

                            ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

                            The Rifles

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              FWIW officers lose much more than one day a month when returning from overseas. Officers lose one day for every day of leave granted in the mission area. So say you get 18days in UNIFIL then reduce your annual leave allowance by 18days upon return home.

                              Suddenly a man losing 6days on return home doesnt look quite so bad

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by midnight oil View Post
                                FWIW officers lose much more than one day a month when returning from overseas. Officers lose one day for every day of leave granted in the mission area. So say you get 18days in UNIFIL then reduce your annual leave allowance by 18days upon return home.

                                Suddenly a man losing 6days on return home doesnt look quite so bad
                                why be penalised for serving Overseas? they should be gaining Leave, not losing it.
                                Last edited by RoyalGreenJacket; 26 November 2013, 15:02.
                                RGJ

                                ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

                                The Rifles

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