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  • #46
    50 k would be for a junior pilot??

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    • #47
      Originally posted by golden rivet View Post
      50 k would be for a junior pilot??
      A newly commissioned graduate pilot will be on circa €40k gross inclusive of MSA and flying pay.

      A pilot on completion of their 12 years will be closer to €70k.

      A pilot in Aer Lingus will earn in excess of €100k a year over the same period, not including additional sector payments etc.

      A pilot would have to make colonel to earn similar.
      Last edited by Chuck; 13 April 2019, 22:56.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Chuck View Post
        A newly commissioned graduate pilot will be on circa €40k gross inclusive of MSA and flying pay.

        A pilot on completion of their 12 years will be closer to €70k.

        A pilot in Aer Lingus will earn in excess of €100k a year over the same period, not including additional sector payments etc.

        A pilot would have to make colonel to earn similar.
        And the Aer Lingus Pilot would probably get more hours

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        • #49
          Originally posted by DeV View Post
          And the Aer Lingus Pilot would probably get more hours
          Without a shadow of a doubt. Most airline pilots, fly in the region of 600-800 hours a year. The maximum legally allowed is 900.

          AC pilots on average are somewhere in the region of 150-200. This isn't unusual for air arms. 10 hours per month would be universally accepted as the bare minimum to maintain currency.

          And also wouldn't have to deal with the endless amount of red tape, audit boards, ROWs, secretary's, meetings, duties, pet projects etc etc.

          So the options are essentially.

          Stay - Take on more responsibility, more workload for slightly better pay. A comdt to Lt Col might be 100 euro a month better off.

          Leave - Take a small hit financially for a few years. Do your primary job - flying 100% of the time with little or no distraction. Guaranteed time off and a strong union to cut out any bullshit.

          I don't think money is a deciding factor for many leaving. It is a consideration absolutely but not the single cause.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Chuck View Post
            ...I don't think money is a deciding factor for many leaving. It is a consideration absolutely but not the single cause.
            This, absolutely this.

            People don't leave the military because the pay is crap compared to what they could earn outside, they leave because they are avalanched in crap, they are bored out of their minds, and that the pay is crap compared to what they can earn outside.

            Your aircrew aren't leaving because they could earn more at RyanAir, they are leaving because none of the flying they do is professionally challenging and they could earn more at Ryan Air.

            There's a exercise just finished in Sweden (not a NATO member), the Swedes, Norwegians, Finns, USMC and 40 CDO Gp RM spent a month up past the Arctic circle.

            How many of the people who've left in the last 5 years would have not left, or stayed in a few more years, if they had professionally challenging, exciting and interesting flying and soldiering to look forward to every year?
            Last edited by ropebag; 14 April 2019, 12:11.

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            • #51
              As of the 31 March, the Defence Forces strength has fallen to another new low with just 8,534 troops. Down 300 from this time last year.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Rhodes View Post
                As of the 31 March, the Defence Forces strength has fallen to another new low with just 8,534 troops. Down 300 from this time last year.
                How many civilians are employed or FTE contractors in the Defence Force at present?

                Post Edit: It seems around 750 split between Civil Service grade employees and Public Service grade employees according to your 2019 budget documents.
                Last edited by Anzac; 18 May 2020, 07:11.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Anzac View Post
                  How many civilians are employed or FTE contractors in the Defence Force at present?

                  Post Edit: It seems around 750 split between Civil Service grade employees and Public Service grade employees according to your 2019 budget documents.
                  According to latest annual report on the DoD website as at 31 Dec 2018:
                  Civil Servants - 355
                  Civilian employees- 431 (WTE 424)

                  Civilian employees include:
                  The Department of Defence employs civilian staff at various military installations to support the upkeep and maintenance of military infrastructure and equipment. The grades employed are spread across a wide spectrum and include craft workers (Electricians, Carpenters, Plumbers, Fitters, Welders etc.), services (General Operatives), administrative (Clerks, Storemen), healthcare professionals (Social Workers, Physiotherapists, Pharmacists) and other specialist grades (Archivists, Aircraft Inspector/Instructor, Technicians, Quantity Surveyors, Draughtsmen).

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                  • #54
                    The strength of the Defence Force from 2008 to 2020.

                    Attached Files

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                    • #55
                      A disgrace, no doubt about it.
                      When a certain political party made an election promise for 2000 extra gardai, we got 2000 extra gardai. There wasn't enough room for them in Templemore, so a NEW ACCOMMODATION BLOCK was built!
                      To loose 2000 members of the defence forces in 12 years should be grounds for someone resigning.
                      This isn't news.
                      We had warnings of this many times in the past.
                      Air Corps no longer able to do top cover for SAR in 2017 due to staff shortages.
                      Naval service unable to put 2 ships to sea because of staff shortages in 2019.
                      The Minister for state every month in the Dail saying everything is fine.
                      When in an interview the CoS says there is a problem with staffing, said minister for state contradicts him saying if there was a problem, CoS would have told me.

                      Kehoe mus never have anything to do with the Defence Forces. Varadkar, as former minister for defence, must take responsibility for letting this happen, and should also have nothing to do with the Defence Forces in Future.
                      Both let it happen.
                      For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                      • #56
                        Has there been a commensurate decline in the size of the Dept of Defence? Over twenty years ago, a Senior Defence Attache attending a 'function' in the Curragh remarked upon the DoD and said he had never encountered such a hostile dept in any state whose sole purpose appeared to be to undermine at every opportunity the Nations Defence Forces. Equally interesting was the concurring response of the senior Officers present.
                        Sarsfield

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                        • #57
                          A NZDF Brigadier attache said the same thing under 10 years ago in another function.

                          The Canadian Attache reiterated the comment and even pointed his crutch at the DoD ASG.

                          Rare moment of candor from a soon to be retired DCOS made the proceedings interesting

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                          • #58
                            The strength of the Defence Force from 2017 to 2021.

                            Click image for larger version

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                            • #59
                              The table below shows the establishment and current strength of the Defence Forces, by service, as at 31st December 2021, the latest date for which such data is available:
                              Service Establishment Current Strength (WTE)
                              Army 7,520 6,841
                              Air Corps 886 751
                              Naval Service 1,094 876
                              Total 9,500 8,468
                              The Government remains committed to returning to, and maintaining, the agreed strength of each branch of the Defence Forces and, in that context, a number of initiatives are being implemented to counter current staffing challenges and these will play a role in restoring and retaining capacity.

                              Additionally, the Commission on the Defence Forces is finalising its work with a view to completing their report as soon as possible. The Commission’s Report, when submitted, will be fully considered at that point.
                              Defence Forces – Wednesday, 2 Feb 2022 – Parliamentary Questions (33rd Dáil) – Houses of the Oireachtas
                              For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by na grohmiti View Post
                                The table below shows the establishment and current strength of the Defence Forces, by service, as at 31st December 2021, the latest date for which such data is available:
                                Service Establishment Current Strength (WTE)
                                Army 7,520 6,841
                                Air Corps 886 751
                                Naval Service 1,094 876
                                Total 9,500 8,468
                                The Government remains committed to returning to, and maintaining, the agreed strength of each branch of the Defence Forces and, in that context, a number of initiatives are being implemented to counter current staffing challenges and these will play a role in restoring and retaining capacity.

                                Additionally, the Commission on the Defence Forces is finalising its work with a view to completing their report as soon as possible. The Commission’s Report, when submitted, will be fully considered at that point.
                                Defence Forces – Wednesday, 2 Feb 2022 – Parliamentary Questions (33rd Dáil) – Houses of the Oireachtas
                                Do you have similar for AR

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