Ministerial Air Transport Service

[pym]

Well if there is more, by all means continue!

It's a lot of non military roles for a Military Air wing to carry out.

It sure is, but do you think they'd have been given the funding for 6 AW-139's, if they were only for military roles? Not a snowballs chance in hell, I reckon.

[DeV]

Well if there is more, by all means continue!

It's a lot of non military roles for a Military Air wing to carry out.

The primary role of the DF is to defend the State from armed aggression. The threat is extremely low so that allows a lot of time/resources to be released to other work (when the DF is not engaged in, or training (in fact by training for it, it is fulfilling it) for its primary role.

http://www.military.ie/air-corps/organisation/roles-of-the-air-corps/

[Pure Hover]

Let's hope no non routine servicing issues arise then but TBH it's sad to see it come to this. What I mean by this is the lack of support from the DoD for the AC MATS service, laid bare in a fanciful briefing document to the Taoiseach as the current incumbent. Yes the aircraft may be getting on in years but surely in the absence of ANY forward planning for a replacement, it makes sense to provide for the ongoing maintenance of this superb State asset.

So who's really deciding policy then? Shall we ask Mr Shatter if he endorsed this?

[GoneToTheCanner]

you're dealing with chimps. I do think a MATS flight is a necessity, even in tough times and commercial flights are not always suitable for many reasons. I have stated here before that a MATS flight, along the lines of the French GLAM set-up, which would be under the direct control of the Dept of Foreign Affairs is, in my opinion, the best way to do it. MATS has always been the source of friction between the DoD and DoFA. It should really be demilitarised and operated as a direct civil Government flight, instead of consuming a large portion of the AC's budget. It should come from the Taoiseach's budget or the DoFA's purse, as they are the main users and beneficiaries. They should also have their own helicopter(s)

regards
GttC

PS: in the current climate, picking up a decent second-hand jet is easy. Running the current jet into the ground makes no sense and it'll end up being chopped up like 240.

[na grohmiti]

I think some are reading too much into this. The G4 is an old aircraft. Remember it was bought when CJ Haughey was Taoiseach. It was bought by charvet Charlie as a status symbol. He wanted an exec jet like all the other rich boys, and to hell with the country's finances. It even went on a round the world trip, just to prove that it could. He even picked the carpets. It has been demonstrated in recent times that the smaller type is more practical for most journeys where the scheduled flights are not available.

The days of the Minister taking his wife shopping in NY with the G4 are long gone, thank god.
When it is beyond economical repair, it will be disposed of. We can hope then that a more adaptable replacement aircraft is provided, Maybe some sort of mid range freight/passenger Jet.
If HMQE2 can do without the queens flight, then Enda can too.

[DeV]

Would an overhaul count?

you're dealing with chimps. I do think a MATS flight is a necessity, even in tough times and commercial flights are not always suitable for many reasons. I have stated here before that a MATS flight, along the lines of the French GLAM set-up, which would be under the direct control of the Dept of Foreign Affairs is, in my opinion, the best way to do it. MATS has always been the source of friction between the DoD and DoFA. It should really be demilitarised and operated as a direct civil Government flight, instead of consuming a large portion of the AC's budget. It should come from the Taoiseach's budget or the DoFA's purse, as they are the main users and beneficiaries. They should also have their own helicopter(s)

regards
GttC

PS: in the current climate, picking up a decent second-hand jet is easy. Running the current jet into the ground makes no sense and it'll end up being chopped up like 240.

Maybe the DOD/AC should recharge the other Departments for the fuel/variable cost/total cost?

I think some are reading too much into this. The G4 is an old aircraft. Remember it was bought when CJ Haughey was Taoiseach. It was bought by charvet Charlie as a status symbol. He wanted an exec jet like all the other rich boys, and to hell with the country's finances. It even went on a round the world trip, just to prove that it could. He even picked the carpets. It has been demonstrated in recent times that the smaller type is more practical for most journeys where the scheduled flights are not available.

The days of the Minister taking his wife shopping in NY with the G4 are long gone, thank god.
When it is beyond economical repair, it will be disposed of. We can hope then that a more adaptable replacement aircraft is provided, Maybe some sort of mid range freight/passenger Jet.
If HMQE2 can do without the queens flight, then Enda can too.

QE2 still has a Royal flight just not used as much.

The advantage the GIV of course is range and carrying capacity. Is the Learjet transatlantic?

[na grohmiti]

Does it need to be? We are European union members, not USA. If Barry wants us, he can send a plane to collect us. They are in Shannon regularly.

[Pure Hover]

Have to agree with GTTC - a properly resourced MATS is a necessity for a busy European democracy. It allows senior Government delegations that essential freedom of movement that civil carriers cannot provide. In the absence of any clear policy direction epitomised by the last two governments, the permanent gov't have done what they do best i.e. nothing. Hence the current shambolic situation where a top of the range GOVERNMENT JET, for want of a relatively minor repair or maint can be rendered unserviceable, directly affecting state business.

[CTU]

While a proper MATS service might be necessary for modern diplomacy. I don't think in the current economic climate the government could be seen by the press or the people to be throwing money on a 20+ year old aircraft which many people see as a millionaires toy. Nor could they be seen to be spending money on a new VIP only aircraft. Remember when Bertie tried to replace it 10 years ago.

The only way they could replace it is with an aircraft like the C40 clipper, e.g. a multi role aircraft that could do Troop transport, humanitarian missions and MATS missions.

[ropebag]

...QE2 still has a Royal flight just not used as much...

barely used at all - 32 Sqn is a military communications and support Squadron, not a VIP transport Squadron - its 125's and 146's are far more likely to be seen in Afghanistan or anywhere an aircraft with secure communications and a Defensive Aids Suite is required than taking the Royals or Cabinet Ministers anywhere. it might take, for example, the CDS and his staff on a magical mystery tour of NATO capitals because doing it commercially would be a bit of a pig, but only if it wasn't needed elsewhere.

UK ministers almost always use commercial flights, and if the PM goes somewhere with a decent size staff he charters a plane from BA. only if he goes to Afghanistan or Somalia does he go by military aircraft, and then by C-17/Voyager/C-130.

Ireland does need access to a quickly available passenger carrying aircraft to get ministers around at short notice or in time frames that the commercial carriers just can't match - but i think its ridiculous to think it needs to own two such aircraft, or that it needs transatlantic reach. the transport role for the AC is military pax and cargo, patient transfer, and then MATS - the aircraft used should reflect that, so a cargo aircraft with LifePort and some bolt-in seating is the answer, not a couple of biz jets that are bog-all use for anything else.

[DeV]

Remember when Bertie tried to replace it 10 years ago.
.

Bertie wanted to buy a 45 seater 737 !

barely used at all - 32 Sqn is a military communications and support Squadron, not a VIP transport Squadron - its 125's and 146's are far more likely to be seen in Afghanistan or anywhere an aircraft with secure communications and a Defensive Aids Suite is required than taking the Royals or Cabinet Ministers anywhere. it might take, for example, the CDS and his staff on a magical mystery tour of NATO capitals because doing it commercially would be a bit of a pig, but only if it wasn't needed elsewhere.

UK ministers almost always use commercial flights, and if the PM goes somewhere with a decent size staff he charters a plane from BA. only if he goes to Afghanistan or Somalia does he go by military aircraft, and then by C-17/Voyager/C-130.

true but they still have access

What aircraft touched down in Baldonnel?

[GoneToTheCanner]

32 Sqdn have been in Baldonnel many times. I waved in one of their 146s a few times.....the problem with Irish MATS was the tendency to misuse it, such as a certain former minister going out of her way to open an off-license for a friend or for a certain former minister to send his child home, which is why the Irish public always associate it with waste and scandals, instead of it's genuine utility to the State.

regards
GttC

[na grohmiti]

The certain minister used the Casa to open her now husbands Off Licence, I believe.

[Turkey]

The certain minister used the Casa to open her now husbands Off Licence, I believe.

Ya mean someone was daft enough to marry her.....[musta needed that obscene pension].

[Bravo20]

The certain minister used the Casa to open her now husbands Off Licence, I believe.

It wasn't her husband's (not that that makes it better).
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news...-26062024.html