Air to surface/Air to air missiles

[Tempest]

Does anyone know if any consideration has ever been given to acquiring a guided missile capabality for any AC aircraft?

[DeV]

I doubt it due to cost & perceived needs

Plus have we ever had an aircraft capable?

[Turkey]

I'd say the subject has come up, but look at the reality, broadly speaking the Irish Air Corps doesn't have a single military aircraft.

[ropebag]

I'd say the subject has come up, but look at the reality, broadly speaking the Irish Air Corps doesn't have a single military aircraft.

its been gone over before, but the PC-9M's are (structurally) rated for Hellfire/Brimstone, AIM-9 and 250 & 500lb JDAM and Paveway - the CASA 235's are structurally rated for AM39 Exocet and AGM-84 Harpoon (both 6/700kg-14/1500lb weapons), so they could take lots of much smaller weapon stores in an overwatch/CAS role. think Chad or Mali, an airframe with 5 or 6 hours flying duration, half a dozen Hellfire/Brimstone and a couple of 250lb JDAM, lots of radios and a nice EO surveilance/targetting system...

[GoneToTheCanner]

@ropebag, that would depend on the AC's Casas having hardpoints in the wings and associated wiring harnesses. The PC-9s hardpoints/pylons are NATO standard so anything that's within a weight limit and has 14 inch lugs can be hung onto it. Now, you might have to add an associated computer and change software,too. You might even have to change pylons to hold a firing "shoe" for missiles. I was told years ago that they(the DoD) were considering funding newer unguided rockets for the Fouga's pods until someone pointed out the limited lifespan of such weapons and the idea was dropped.....the DF didn't enter the missile age until the Milan and the DoD always moaned about the cost of them.

[ias]

As they already have 70mm rockets for the PC9s (I believe?) what about DAGR, LOGIR, or APKWS, low cost laser guided weapons? OK, you would need to buy laser designators to "paint" the targets, but they would seem to be a "cheap" enough solution for the Air Corps.

[ropebag]

As they already have 70mm rockets for the PC9s (I believe?) what about DAGR, LOGIR, or APKWS, low cost laser guided weapons? OK, you would need to buy laser designators to "paint" the targets, but they would seem to be a "cheap" enough solution for the Air Corps.

its not a bad idea - the USN's APKWS modification of the Hydra rocket has a range of about 8km, and its about a third of the price of a Hellfire... i think it would undoubtedly do a very large part of the fire support requirement that a deployed force might want - and in the ROE that such a force would operate under, probably do it better than Hellfire.

the great advantage it would have in Irish service is commonality with the existing, unguided 70mm rocket - you could use the guided rocket to destroy a specific vehicle or Missile/Mortar/Rocket firing point, and use the unguided rockets to flatten a compound or area of cover with dismounted troops occupying it.

[morpheus]

What is the specific rocket make that we fire from the launchers?
I know its a 70mm, but is it a Hydra?
Also the launcher is the LAU 7 or something?

[ropebag]

What is the specific rocket make that we fire from the launchers?
I know its a 70mm, but is it a Hydra?
Also the launcher is the LAU 7 or something?

the launcher is the FN LAU 7, and the rockets are (from what i can see) Folding Fin Aerial Rockets, the fore-runner to the Hydra series. its possible that the rockets in Irish service are actually Hydra rockets, but called 'FFAR' in order to keep the shinners/soap-dodgers off the governments back - its also possible that they are the original FFAR. the big difference between the two is accuracy - the Hyrda is accurate, the FFAR is, err... not.

my understanding is that the above doesn't really matter - one rocket pod is broadly the same as the next rocket pod, and the AC could buy either Hydra or CRV-7's and their respective pods and have them operational the next day.

[morpheus]

hydras are blue? Ive seen photos of teh PC9m loadout on the ground infront of the aircraft and the rockets "looked" like hydras.

but then again, blue could just be the color used for test or dumb rockets... hard to find out the exact weapon system and ammunition.


http://www.irishairpics.com/iB_html/...s_hardware.jpg


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...a_70_M261.jpeg

[DeV]

Would blue not signify inert?

[Turkey]

At the risk of stating the blindingly obvious, it makes a lot more sense to use "dumb" weapons on the range as it's easier to see the fall of shot, does not vaporize the target, makes post-firing cleanup easier and costs less, so without risk of opsecing us into cyber afterlife , I think it's safe to say what has been generally observed has been practice shots.

[ropebag]

At the risk of stating the blindingly obvious, it makes a lot more sense to use "dumb" weapons on the range as it's easier to see the fall of shot, does not vaporize the target, makes post-firing cleanup easier and costs less, so without risk of opsecing us into cyber afterlife , I think it's safe to say what has been generally observed has been practice shots.

'dumb' is cheap to use, but if its not what you're going to use in real life, then its both a waste of money and you're setting yourself up for a fcuk-up when you go to use them for real.

as importantly, i've never seen anything to suggest that the IG has bought any guided weapons for the PC-9M's - no tender proposals, no Foregn Military Sales stuff from the US government, and nothing from the spotters who would, lets be fair, go doolally if they saw a PC-9 with anything other than the public stuff.

its also worth recalling that rockets have a shelf-life, and what gets used in practice tends to be the stuff thats approaching the end of its shelf-life - i rather doubt that Finance would let Defence buy (still expensive) practice weapons to throw down the range when theres a stack of super-duper Hydra's sat rotting in Baldonnell going tick-tock and that would have to be (expensively) disposed of when the magic date is reached.

possible of course, but not exactly likely.

[hptmurphy]

when theres a stack of super-duper Hydra's sat rotting in Baldonnell going tick-tock and that would have to be (expensively) disposed of when the magic date is reached.

the day before that date arrives is usually a great 'mad minute'.........

Had the pleasure of having to dispose of a shit load of flares some years ago. made the 4th of July look cheap and nasty.

[DeV]

You would be surprised Ropebag, if they are used they would have to be replaced.

A load of MILANs were fired because they were about to go time expired