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  • Originally posted by hedgehog View Post
    ..Its truly sickening to see people in full employment make judgements on the future of 120 ish persons they probably havent even talked to-its kind of like PDFORRAs and the Departments attitude to these comrades.
    Hedgie,

    read my posts, and you'll note that as well as the argument that these people ought to leave for the good of the service, i make the argument that they need to leave asap for their own good.

    unless you are seriously suggesting that they should be kept on till they are 65 and able to retire for good, then they have to leave the DF and go out into the world at some point -they will have a better chance to build a new life the younger they are when they start that life. keeping them on for another year, or two years, or five years is doing them no favours whatsoever - they will still have to leave eventually, and when they do they will be even less well equipped to make a new life in CivDiv than they are now.

    so, are you suggesting the DF should employ 65yo Privates and Cpl's?

    if they are monumentally stupid the will try to stay on - and in 5 years they will be in even deeper shit than they are now.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by hedgehog View Post
      This is a load of shite

      DO people actually think that the day after these comrades are thrown on the scrap heap that the Department will sanction recruitment of 120 persons- no fecking way will they.

      All that will happen is that 120 comrades of various technical and tactical abilities will go on the scap heap, and the Defence Forces will be down 120 ish persons. - Nice call on that one.
      No your right hedgie they won't be replaced (immediately), they would be replaced the next year (as per Government policy).

      People also have this strange notion that 120 comrades did nothing for 21 years- and when did we get to the stage that we append the adverb "only" when describing Cpls or Ptes, Cpls and Ptes are the backbone of the Defence Forces- .

      So the definition of "setting the world on fire" is to have at least become a Sgt. So everybody who isnt a Sgt is therefore worthless-

      Most of these would have served a few trips overseas, done the courses, did the duties, secured the border, and did the GOHs- When i was a Sgt i served a few trips, i did a few course, I secured the border- Mary Mac had a pain looking at me on GOHs- so whats the difference.

      Setting the world on fire is not a criteria to be used when discussing the livelihoods of our comrades:
      Of course they haven't been sitting on their arses, in fact they are contractually obliged to do a minimum amount of courses, overseas, medical & fitness.

      The problem is have they done the right courses - PNCO & Std NCO - plus courses to improve employability (they knew this day would come).

      Let's remember PDFORRA didn't want them in the first place, negotiated for privates to get 12 and then 21 years.



      Originally posted by hedgehog View Post
      That effort came from amongst others- the 94s who the Minister and the Department wish to consign to the dole- the fact the Defence Forces is a first classs organisation is in spite of and not because of the actions of the department of weasley people (Defence) and our many ministers and lads doing the minister bit as a nixer
      But nothing to do with younger people reaching SNCO rank, a leaner fitter DF.

      Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
      Don't agree.

      I have a mate recently retired at 50 three star private all his career, well qualified in infanteer type things doing recce course at 40s, sniper courses, diving, signaller a mine of information who never wanted promotion just wanted to soldier in the ranks till he decided to retire.

      Guys like this do exist and could outsoldier younger men many times over any day of the week. Many took career choices not to go for promotion or trades.

      Was doing CTRs in Liberia aged 40 + and guys looked up to him. to some guys..age is but a number.
      But if he had been on a contract he knew what the story was
      Last edited by DeV; 17 April 2014, 17:59.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by ropebag View Post
        Hedgie,

        read my posts, and you'll note that as well as the argument that these people ought to leave for the good of the service, i make the argument that they need to leave asap for their own good.

        unless you are seriously suggesting that they should be kept on till they are 65 and able to retire for good, then they have to leave the DF and go out into the world at some point -they will have a better chance to build a new life the younger they are when they start that life. keeping them on for another year, or two years, or five years is doing them no favours whatsoever - they will still have to leave eventually, and when they do they will be even less well equipped to make a new life in CivDiv than they are now.

        so, are you suggesting the DF should employ 65yo Privates and Cpl's?

        if they are monumentally stupid the will try to stay on - and in 5 years they will be in even deeper shit than they are now.

        60 is the upper age limit not 65.


        i make the argument that they need to leave asap for their own good.
        Apart from the security jobs that even the foreginers dont want to do- have you looked at the live register lately- Ireland isnt awash with jobs.

        I love it when people say its for their own good-and usually the result is a kick in the bollix.
        Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
        Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
        The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
        The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
        The best lack all conviction, while the worst
        Are full of passionate intensity.

        Comment


        • It isn't for their own good of course it isn't, it is for organisation's.

          They are there to serve the needs of the organisation (for which they receive reward), it is the same as an large employer.

          The original contract they signed was to see the non-techs discharged if they weren't a corporal within 5 years (I think techs were 21 years) they have got to serve 21 and got a pension.

          Comment


          • The age profile must be kept down at all costs. and idealy the lads being given there ticket should be put to the top of the list for jobs in the likes of the OPW?

            Comment


            • Originally posted by hedgehog View Post
              When the British Army were sending redundancy letters to Sgts, Colour Sgts, Pte, Cpls etc who were on operational deployments- I never commented because (1) I never served in the British Army (2) I havent a clue whats going on in the Brisih Army (3) I am not a knob.
              what's this got to do with the British Army, and whether you ************

              MOD: Board rules prohibit insulting other posters, points awarded this time, a ban will follow the next time
              Last edited by Bravo20; 18 April 2014, 00:49.
              RGJ

              ...Once a Rifleman - Always a Rifleman... Celer et Audax

              The Rifles

              Comment


              • Originally posted by hedgehog View Post
                60 is the upper age limit not 65.
                .
                Unless your on a post 94 contract in which case it is 50 for a sergeant and 56 for SNCO

                Or an officer the COS is 62 and it falls from there

                Comment


                • If pdforra got their wish then raco would be entitled to get the same deal for captains and old lts if there is any...
                  Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

                  Comment


                  • But if he had been on a contract he knew what the story was
                    He was a contributor here in the past, bit before your time, I won't pretend to know what he knew.

                    Or an officer the COS is 62 and it falls from there
                    Officers above a certain grade with certain qualifications can be invited to serve past their published retirement date.

                    and idealy the lads being given there ticket should be put to the top of the list for jobs in the likes of the OPW?
                    that would be illegal
                    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                    Comment


                    • My 2 cents worth. I was one of the first yellowpacks and can remember the contract changing several times in the first few years.
                      Was recently talking to guys that are affected by this situation. Both privates in non infantry tech roles. Both are in a situation where there are no vacancies for promotion nor have there been for the past few years. There is only 1 nco who goes overseas, the rest are stay at home types. Both have served in Chad/Liberia as acting nco's, one went as a private acting sgt ffs.

                      Yet they were refused transfers out because of their skillset. Now the situation is next year they are gone, there are no courses been run to train their replacements and who is gonna lose out as a result?

                      Not saying who is right and who is wrong but its a very messy situation and there appears to have been little thought of the potential consequences.
                      Anyone need a spleen ?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
                        Hard to feel sympathetic, really, to someone who's been on the Government nipple for 21 years
                        That phrase implies that these men were parasites, rather than soldiers who actually earned their pay. There's a huge difference between working for the state & sponging off it; unless you know these men you're out of line implying the latter.
                        "The dolphins were monkeys that didn't like the land, walked back to the water, went back from the sand."

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by FMolloy View Post
                          That phrase implies that these men were parasites, rather than soldiers who actually earned their pay. There's a huge difference between working for the state & sponging off it; unless you know these men you're out of line implying the latter.
                          Is that not gttc pointing out that he was on the govt tit for the past 21 years?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by ollie View Post
                            My 2 cents worth. I was one of the first yellowpacks and can remember the contract changing several times in the first few years.
                            Was recently talking to guys that are affected by this situation. Both privates in non infantry tech roles. Both are in a situation where there are no vacancies for promotion nor have there been for the past few years. There is only 1 nco who goes overseas, the rest are stay at home types. Both have served in Chad/Liberia as acting nco's, one went as a private acting sgt ffs.

                            Yet they were refused transfers out because of their skillset. Now the situation is next year they are gone, there are no courses been run to train their replacements and who is gonna lose out as a result?

                            Not saying who is right and who is wrong but its a very messy situation and there appears to have been little thought of the potential consequences.
                            No vacancies in 14 years (allowing 7 years as a private)?

                            Redress, ODF?

                            Comment


                            • I think a lot of techies in the next year or two will be looking for promotion in the infantry

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by hedgehog View Post
                                60 is the upper age limit not 65.




                                Apart from the security jobs that even the foreginers dont want to do- have you looked at the live register lately- Ireland isnt awash with jobs.

                                I love it when people say its for their own good-and usually the result is a kick in the bollix.
                                have you tried to recruit sklilled staff lately, very difficult at the moment. especially in Dublin.

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