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  • Originally posted by REX View Post
    My God you're a touchy bugger! I referred to all the examples you gave (which of course includes NZ), these are examples of doing it the right way, but with our financial reality it's just pie in the sky to suggest we follow their example. I never said that everyone else is wrong and the DF is right, just the opposite I would have thought, although I restrained myself as, unlike many here, I have to go into Bks every day and face the music if i type something too harsh.

    As for the whole Forum being "Walter", speak for yourself, there have been many interesting & informative discussions here. As a comparative red arse at only 45 I would have to say you've been very chilidsh in your reply attacking any body who does not row in behind your buy German campaign, some of us want to keep in the real world about solutions that could actually happen, and the G-wagon does not fall into that category. You might at some stage see one off purchases for very specialised roles, but I'll eat my Beret if we ever see a fleet replacement based on the G-Wagon! You'll have to wait for your sales commission
    No commission here Rex, but I do like a G Wagon . My real world suggestion was transit. Ford Transit. Gave a paragraph or two on the transit, I have a liking for Transits too. What are your thoughts on that one.

    I drive a VW T5 Camper which is German again,,,,,,,, Mrs drives a VW Golf,,,,,,,dammit! Maybe there is something of a pattern developing here.
    We travel not for trafficking alone,
    By hotter winds our fiery hearts are fanned,
    For lust of knowing what should not be known,
    We make the Golden Journey to Samarkand.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by DeV View Post
      The new "beast" is a MAN isn't it?
      Sure is
      "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

      Comment


      • Originally posted by FMP View Post
        No commission here Rex, but I do like a G Wagon . My real world suggestion was transit. Ford Transit. Gave a paragraph or two on the transit, I have a liking for Transits too. What are your thoughts on that one.

        I drive a VW T5 Camper which is German again,,,,,,,, Mrs drives a VW Golf,,,,,,,dammit! Maybe there is something of a pattern developing here.
        Big fan of transits, compared to the Pajero they are a piece of cake to maintain, they are better on fuel and unlike the Pajero don't eat Brake pads, tyres and headlight bulbs. We would be better off using the like of Transits and connects for most every day admin uses but I disagree about using Transits for CIT, debussing is compromised and as someone who has only a 28.5 inch inside leg I find the back of a transit a squeeze, I'd hate to be 6 footer spending the day on CIT. If they used it for that role it would require going for the 12 seat layout with sliding doors both side, so it could be done with some will from the right offices.

        P.S. I told you, a Tuetonic fixation, and yes I also drive a vehicle from the VAG. (Volkwagon, AUDI Group for the info of any pervs reading)
        CRIME SCENE INSTIGATOR

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        • Originally posted by DeV View Post
          Does it come as a station wagon?
          The DF has lost people at home and in Lebanon in soft tops?

          What kind of seats in the rear?

          As Saab said it would tick the overseas and tactical boxes but not the ATCP, what about the troops in the back when it's doing 100, from Dublin to Portlaoise? The noise, the risk of rollover, no visibility to the sides
          Have never seen a "wolf" station wagon I must say. More often than not the Disco makes an appearance it that type of role, senior rank staff transport.

          UK company "Safetydevices" have been making ROPS / seats for the soft and hard tops for a number of years now. As well as other makes and models.

          The Land Rover Wolf is a military utility vehicle in service with UK Armed Forces and the Dutch Marine Corps.  The vehicle is famous for being the primary utility vehicle of the British Army.  Safety Devices has made many variations of ROPS for this vehicle over the years, catering for General Service (GS), Fitted for Radio (FFR) and Bowman variants.  Safety Devices has manufactured an external front with internal rear section, as well as a fully internal assembly.  The


          Windows have never been done in the MOB but Ex MOB civilian window conversion pic attached. Older model of LR but the hard top is "wolf".
          Attached Files
          We travel not for trafficking alone,
          By hotter winds our fiery hearts are fanned,
          For lust of knowing what should not be known,
          We make the Golden Journey to Samarkand.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by REX View Post
            Big fan of transits, compared to the Pajero they are a piece of cake to maintain, they are better on fuel and unlike the Pajero don't eat Brake pads, tyres and headlight bulbs. We would be better off using the like of Transits and connects for most every day admin uses but I disagree about using Transits for CIT, debussing is compromised and as someone who has only a 28.5 inch inside leg I find the back of a transit a squeeze, I'd hate to be 6 footer spending the day on CIT. If they used it for that role it would require going for the 12 seat layout with sliding doors both side, so it could be done with some will from the right offices.

            P.S. I told you, a Tuetonic fixation, and yes I also drive a vehicle from the VAG. (Volkwagon, AUDI Group for the info of any pervs reading)
            I do think it and its little brother should have a bigger part to play in the DF. It is a fine vehicle and as many have posted here already it fulfills many roles. Like the twin/double door idea, that was my one niggley point about a "van" in the CIT role, left side or rear doors. Would not be a huge leap to have the twin/double door models with less seating capacity. SWB single seats in the rear to carry 4/6 in kit. I'm waltering yes but I'm enjoying it and believe it or not this particular idea/concept (G Wagons and all that madness aside) is actually (in my opinion) a very viable Pajero replacement. Even comes in 4 x 4.
            We travel not for trafficking alone,
            By hotter winds our fiery hearts are fanned,
            For lust of knowing what should not be known,
            We make the Golden Journey to Samarkand.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by REX View Post
              We don't have the money as country and even if we did there is no way it would be spent on DF vehicles.
              We are already spending it approx every 5 years, yet we still have vehicles from several contracts ago in service because they are better in some roles or have lower milage/are in good condition.

              The ideas we're discussing here are to reduce costs (both initial purchase price per vehicle and whole life support).

              The only suggestion that made any sense was the inclusion of a maintenance contract when buying the vehicles. But this was tried before, after we began getting the old Nissan Patrol 260's in '89 it was suggested that we would lease vehicles on either a 3 or 5 year term, and anything other than basic servicing would be the responsibility of the Manufacturer. The contract price was trashed out but when they Dept of Finance saw the price they shot it down immediately.
              Of course they did they have trained and equipped soldiers to do it
              I was referring to spares being built in to the purchasing contract.



              FMP is full of examples of procurement tales from other Military organisations but he forgets to take into account that (AFAIR) the DF are the least resourced military in Europe as a percentage of GNP.
              +1

              When it's time for cuts we're first on the block, and we will never have the money, or political will to buy vehicles in the numbers required to replace the entire fleet over the next 5 years. When you only buy 50 odd of the more numerous vehicles each year, by the time you reach the end of the contract the vehicle will have gone through changes as a result of the manufacturer upgrading models (the Patrol GR being a prime case). The cure for this to specify that all the vehicles for the life of the contract be the same, but this leads to other problems, we have such a small fleet that what happens is that they do a production run to our specs, all in one go (400-500), and you end up getting 5 year old vehicles being delivered as new, this is what happened with the last 2 years of Patrol 260 deliveries, although that was because they no longer made them, rather than any contractual stipulation. For whatever reason we ended up getting vehicles that had spent 5 years sitting in a yard somewhere
              Which is one reason to go for COTS/MOTS

              Depends on the upgrades I suppose, if it doesn't mean extra training, spares etc (then it isn't a major issue). Lets say it is front axles, it is an issue yes, say we ended up needing 2 different front axles in service on the same model vehicle, it is still better than having to keep 5+ different types in stores. Even if there are major upgrades you are still (possibly) going to have a fair degree of parts commonality.

              The first 15 year contract would see a lot of the various models of Nissans and Pajeros taken out of service by the end of it, so in 15 years you have 1 model in service (say Toyota win it), you then go to tender again (say Mitsubishi win this time). You only have to keep spares for max 2 types of vehicle instead of 5+.



              By the way, I'm not saying buy the expensive G-Wagon.
              Buy something that ticks as many boxes as possible. Is good-very good on the roads for ATCP etc and is at the very least good cross-country.
              If you can get a vehicle (like the G-Wagon), that will give you a lot of options (eg panel van, box body etc) all the better.



              Not sure if I said it before but possibly the reason say a G-Wagon is more expensive than a Pajero is it is overspec'ed. Payload is 1180 kg verus region 620 kg.
              Traditionally, it is a 3/4 tonne payload we are looking for.

              Comment


              • you mean the ones that were all off the road within 6 months?
                the ones that have been in service 14 years with both of their counter parts seen as inferior, despite the Leyland DAF being a very capable vehicle.

                Again I was driving a Merc 1120f (4X4)the same vehicle 10 years before the DF bought them and always considered its performance excellent. One of the very few vehicles that could pull itself fully loaded out of being bogged to the axles with a good driver!

                o you mean the original ones that were considered total heaps. With their squat VW cab??
                So looks equate to performance for trucks that the DF bought in two batches and were so capable that the units screamed when they were finally retired!



                I know at least 3 drivers from Bde Tpt that would say otherwise.
                fcuking taxi drivers, try talking with people including myself and 'Madmark' who drove them over the tops of mountains , through rivers the same batch for three successive years without so much as a puncture.

                Have an opinion based on what you have experienced and what you know through that as opposed to the bull shit other feed you.

                The Df bought the same as the BA.
                Bollocks they DF ones were a bastard version of three bedford models that could never work, again how do I know , I've driven all types we had them in the units, they were shite.

                I've driven RLs, TKs, MFR 2s and MKs.. just about anything bedford have produced in truck form to include Green Godess Fire engines, the M series were a disaster and again because we went fcking around with the spec.
                Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                • P.S. I told you, a Tuetonic fixation, and yes I also drive a vehicle from the VAG. (Volkwagon, AUDI Group for the info of any pervs reading)
                  admit it..its an Octavia!!!!

                  If they used it for that role it would require going for the 12 seat layout with sliding doors both side, so it could be done with some will from the right offices.
                  If they only listened. Are the seats on rails ? could be a quick fix.

                  I have deliberately stayed away from all the newer land rover products as have bad memories of the soft top type vehicle and having to do escorts in them. Nissans and anything in SUV mode is a vast improvement in comfort for 12 hours stuck in the back of a vehicle, but if its not capable of doing that is it the vehicle we do have to revisit how we ended up with it, and how we can prevent ending up with the same problems time and time again.

                  I'm a mitsubishi user, but its not worth a hat of crabs in comparrisson to the nissan product I previously drove.
                  Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                  • id take and old nissan patrol anywhere fit 5 lads + gear for at least 48hrs and iv never had a problem except trying to superglue one back together
                    Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.

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                    • If it works commercially there is no reason it can't work in roles like CIT,
                      Its not one of the more capable vans on the road for nothing!
                      Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                        How many can it carry (comfortably in BVs) ?
                        Can it be fitted out as an FFR - probably but what about the aerial ?
                        Could the door issue be solved ?
                        All round observation ?
                        Will it carry large & small packs comfortable ? - definitely
                        Will it go around the "hollow" ? - no

                        Transit Connect is probably too small (see above)

                        We need a vehicle for the role that is multi-role
                        Antennas would be no problem, but the 24V needed for some radios might be an issue - could be solved by adding a pair of 12V batteries that would go parallel for charging off the alternator & in series for operating the radios.
                        Doors - have them sliding on both sides & the seats facing out, 2 either side, set up in a similar fashion to the AW139's.
                        You could have a hatch in the roof for stationary observation.

                        Gonna stop now before I go into walting overdrive.
                        Last edited by pym; 13 June 2014, 01:02.

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                        • the problem with all DF vehicle procurement process is the wrong people are making the final assement and awarding of contracts ie DOD and officers that want somthing thats shinny cost the least amount and whats not in the best needs of the DF untill this is resolved we will find it hard to get a vehicle that is fit for the df needs
                          Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory. Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
                            If it works commercially there is no reason it can't work in roles like CIT,
                            Its not one of the more capable vans on the road for nothing!

                            And as I have mentioned it comes in 4 x 4. So very capable off road as well.
                            We travel not for trafficking alone,
                            By hotter winds our fiery hearts are fanned,
                            For lust of knowing what should not be known,
                            We make the Golden Journey to Samarkand.

                            Comment


                            • Not a very taxing course
                              ford transit mk7 4x4 prototype field testing, by County Transmissions.video property of mj allen group of companies www.mjallen.co.uk

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