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  1. #376
    C/S FMP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jack nastyface View Post
    Sorry.IT Luddite and 3rd world computer.Google armoured Reliant Robin....
    Was it this? Now you talking



    And its forerunner.

    We travel not for trafficking alone,
    By hotter winds our fiery hearts are fanned,
    For lust of knowing what should not be known,
    We make the Golden Journey to Samarkand.

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  3. #377
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    Quote Originally Posted by FMP View Post
    See the cloggies are well on the way to completing their new LV replacement program.

    Very fine looking they are too. VW's so they would be wouldn't they.

    1,667 new vehicles in 14 variants.

    Some interesting points about the contract (or not):

    The procurement contract of the Amaroks stipulates that maintenance of the vehicles will be carried out by the supplier (VW). The military vehicles will be taken to the nearest service point for minor and major maintenance.

    In the case of a breakdown on the road, the ANWB (Cloggie roadside assistance organisation) will be called out and fix then and there or recover vehicle to the above mentioned VW dealer.

    All VW's were modified for use prior to delivery to Cloggy specs in the VW factory so all mods are also under guarantee. Upgrades included stronger suspension, weapon / radio racks, 24v systems, MOB tow packs, convoy lights / tac lights, AT tyres, hard tops, antenna mounts etc. etc.

    Well done chaps.
    It might be worth noting that the dutch expect their 4x4 to have a service life of 200,000km or ten years. The non dub DF fleet have well in excess of that within 10 years!

  4. #378
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    The Amarok is the support vehicle for the Dakar Rally in South America. A place once held by the Mitsubishi. The route map, pace notes etc, are all plotted by organisers in Amaroks.
    VW are many things, boring, featureless etc, but they are also, without question, reliable.

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  6. #379
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    I'd like to see a VW rep rock up in Afghanistan to fix a burst tyre or a clogged fuel line or patch a bullet hole...

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  8. #380
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  10. #381
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
    I'd like to see a VW rep rock up in Afghanistan to fix a burst tyre or a clogged fuel line or patch a bullet hole...
    Well I'm sure they learned some lessons from the two wars they fought over they last decade and a bit. With that in mind I'm sure those lessons influence their decision on their LV fleet. Which will for the most part be a home service fleet (Like the DF's LV fleet for the most part). Should they ever wander off for a bit of fun in the sun anytime soon they have their CV90's, (Hand-full of) Leopards, PzH2000's, Fennek, Boxer, Bushmaster, etc. etc. enough to chose from to fit the task in hand.

    The road side assist etc. is not just a Cloggie thing, MOB over here (At home, not actually here) do it too, AA or RAC. Again a MOB with decades of war fighting behind them. You would think they too have lessons learned. Its funny how these can see the benefits of commonality in the supplier and utilizing "other" options in the service and support of their fleets but yet it seems so alien to the Irish MOB.
    Last edited by FMP; 3rd July 2015 at 06:24.
    We travel not for trafficking alone,
    By hotter winds our fiery hearts are fanned,
    For lust of knowing what should not be known,
    We make the Golden Journey to Samarkand.

  11. #382
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    As much as i like the Cloggie VW Amarok ,,,,,,,,

    Whenever I look at this:



    I cant help but picture this:

    We travel not for trafficking alone,
    By hotter winds our fiery hearts are fanned,
    For lust of knowing what should not be known,
    We make the Golden Journey to Samarkand.

  12. #383
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    The Dutch are going to use slightly modified civilian vehicles like Nissan Patrol and Ford Ranger for domestic use, now why couldn't the DF think of that

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  14. #384
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    Why not indeed! I totally get the sarcasm

    Slightly modded by the manufacturer, slight difference.

    Nice Mc Pikey mod on the front of this thing, lost comms procedure must come into play every time you wade a stream more than 6 inches deep.

    Last edited by FMP; 3rd July 2015 at 18:10.
    We travel not for trafficking alone,
    By hotter winds our fiery hearts are fanned,
    For lust of knowing what should not be known,
    We make the Golden Journey to Samarkand.

  15. #385
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    @fmp, the DF have had very fractious relationships with suppliers like Mowag and Aerospatiale in the past and sometimes, having one supplier is not all roses. Everyone understands the need for commonality but the DF does tend to "gold-plate" it's kit and end up with overweight aircraft and other nightmares.

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  17. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by FMP View Post
    Why not indeed! I totally get the sarcasm

    Slightly modded by the manufacturer, slight difference.

    Nice Mc Pikey mod on the front of this thing, lost comms procedure must come into play every time you wade a stream more than 6 inches deep.
    The car you quoted in the pic is just as verboten offroad as the ford rangers are now. The most intensive use they get is doing the flags for the ranges where they'll be driven too fast over shitty tracks but I guaren-****ing-tee an amarok will do the job no better long or short term. Dakar and amaroks impressive as it may seem VW either flat out paid for the gig or provided the cheapest package let's not get too excited.
    Last edited by The real Jack; 4th July 2015 at 03:49.
    Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

  18. #387
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
    @fmp, the DF have had very fractious relationships with suppliers like Mowag and Aerospatiale in the past and sometimes, having one supplier is not all roses. Everyone understands the need for commonality but the DF does tend to "gold-plate" it's kit and end up with overweight aircraft and other nightmares.
    Seriously though, could that be a case of big windows and the sales men see you coming???
    We travel not for trafficking alone,
    By hotter winds our fiery hearts are fanned,
    For lust of knowing what should not be known,
    We make the Golden Journey to Samarkand.

  19. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by The real Jack View Post
    The car you quoted in the pic is just as verboten offroad as the ford rangers are now. The most intensive use they get is doing the flags for the ranges where they'll be driven too fast over shitty tracks but I guaren-****ing-tee an amarok will do the job no better long or short term. Dakar and amaroks impressive as it may seem VW either flat out paid for the gig or provided the cheapest package let's not get too excited.
    Fair point on the itchypussy and the ranger, if that's what you use them for then that's what you use them for. You could replace them with anything. Why even bother with this thread if it does not matter what you get?

    But Jack the VW was not bought down the local car dealer and had a spoiler slapped on it making it a street car that looks "cool", which is why its had all the upgrades done on it.

    Major work, swapping out an entire suspension system alone is a big task, so it could go all off road and shit with all the extra weight it carries, suitable rubber to boot. The antenna roof mounts and cable conduits, lovely piece of fabricating. Its attention to detail and getting it right. Let alone all the other bits and bobs that make it fit for military use.

    I'm sure it was all discussed over drinks with the VW rep down the local strip club, that's the world we live it. Doesn't mean you cant get what you want or what you need, best price does not mean a compromise. It means value for money. Not that hard to achieve. Well thought out and designed with a purpose in mind.

    That last sentence seems to sum up whats not done with the DF's LV fleet. Unless that purpose is no more than the flag point you made, and a bit of a runabout. In which case it does not really matter what you get. But why not strive to achieve the best you can, not the best out there because that's pie in the sky for the DF but the best you can. Why not strive to achieve common platforms, use other means for service and support on a daily basis, have vehicles with a fundamental military role. I really struggle to see what is so difficult about achieving that and why there is so much "anti" feeling towards it here.
    Last edited by FMP; 4th July 2015 at 07:57.
    We travel not for trafficking alone,
    By hotter winds our fiery hearts are fanned,
    For lust of knowing what should not be known,
    We make the Golden Journey to Samarkand.

  20. #389
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    https://fayzwordz.files.wordpress.co...icture-068.jpg
    There are pics of Irish GRs navigating Liberian "roads" like this

    The GS/FFR fleet does spend probably >80% of the time on main roads, but it must also be capable of navigating extremes.

    In fairness,
    Aerospatiale was that to do with the spec, the DF not funding upgrades, DF not funding spares?
    MOWAG was to do with lack of spares and canabulisation voiding the warranty?

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  22. #390
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    When the AC was trying to source spares for the Fougas and Alouettes, as they got older, they naturally asked Aerospatiale for parts and were dicked around,as Aero wanted to flog them Squirrels and Alpha jets. They tried to source spares from the open market and even from Romania, India and South Africa for the Alouettes, as they had built them and had them in service. Aero told them in no uncertain terms that they were bound by contract to use Aero as sole supplier for spares, regardless of how long it took to wait for spares. When Fouga 217 had a prang, the Don had to source a tailbumper from a private owner in the US,as Aero dicked them around. The same happened with Agusta and the Marchetti spares,but a more robust approach was taken by the Don via the good offices of Irish Heli, who sourced parts for the Marchettis in the open market and slashed the spares costs.....you have to be really careful with single-source suppliers, as they essentially have you over a barrel.

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  24. #391
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    https://fayzwordz.files.wordpress.co...icture-068.jpg
    There are pics of Irish GRs navigating Liberian "roads" like this
    Looks just like my daily commute, in a Nissan patrol as it happens. Dry season now so dust, not mud and TZ not Liberia still fcuking Africa and still no fcuking roads .
    We travel not for trafficking alone,
    By hotter winds our fiery hearts are fanned,
    For lust of knowing what should not be known,
    We make the Golden Journey to Samarkand.

  25. #392
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    https://fayzwordz.files.wordpress.co...icture-068.jpg
    There are pics of Irish GRs navigating Liberian "roads" like this
    The GS/FFR fleet does spend probably >80% of the time on main roads, but it must also be capable of navigating extremes.
    DeV

    Out of curiosity, did the DF have many LHD patrols and was this for the purposes of overseas deployments?

    Was it necessary to buy LHD I suppose is the question I'm asking? Even if Liberia is a RHS driving country.



    Ps ,,,, sorry mate, just sussed your point, "There are pictures" not actually the one pictured. Ignore above question. Thanks for the pic though, like it
    Last edited by FMP; 5th July 2015 at 11:37.
    We travel not for trafficking alone,
    By hotter winds our fiery hearts are fanned,
    For lust of knowing what should not be known,
    We make the Golden Journey to Samarkand.

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  27. #393
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    Quote Originally Posted by FMP View Post
    Fair point on the itchypussy and the ranger, if that's what you use them for then that's what you use them for. You could replace them with anything. Why even bother with this thread if it does not matter what you get?

    But Jack the VW was not bought down the local car dealer and had a spoiler slapped on it making it a street car that looks "cool", which is why its had all the upgrades done on it.

    Major work, swapping out an entire suspension system alone is a big task, so it could go all off road and shit with all the extra weight it carries, suitable rubber to boot. The antenna roof mounts and cable conduits, lovely piece of fabricating. Its attention to detail and getting it right. Let alone all the other bits and bobs that make it fit for military use.

    I'm sure it was all discussed over drinks with the VW rep down the local strip club, that's the world we live it. Doesn't mean you cant get what you want or what you need, best price does not mean a compromise. It means value for money. Not that hard to achieve. Well thought out and designed with a purpose in mind.

    That last sentence seems to sum up whats not done with the DF's LV fleet. Unless that purpose is no more than the flag point you made, and a bit of a runabout. In which case it does not really matter what you get. But why not strive to achieve the best you can, not the best out there because that's pie in the sky for the DF but the best you can. Why not strive to achieve common platforms, use other means for service and support on a daily basis, have vehicles with a fundamental military role. I really struggle to see what is so difficult about achieving that and why there is so much "anti" feeling towards it here.
    The Pajero serving in the Irish DF is not straight off the showroom either. It has been greatly modified for Irish Service, and not just the addition of the Bumper for the Antennae. The entire lighting system is military standard. (the Nissan's never had this). The Electrical system is designed to take whatever military radio system is in use at the time. The Patrol had an additional battery in a box, and you couldn't switch off the car, if you were using the SINGCAR. The wheels are also non-standard, replacing the standard wide alloys with narrow steel wheels. Suspension would have to be dramatically altered to accommodate this option.
    We didn't just go down to the local 4x4 dealer and ask "does it come in green?". Pretty sure the specs were posted here.
    I don't see the advantage your selection has over the three diamonds, other than it being made in Europe. And there is a thing with Antennae roof mounts.... they add greatly to the roof clearance. Ireland still has plenty of low bridges... all will fit a car or jeep. Many won't take much else. Someone said "2m height is plenty", and poured concrete.

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  29. #394
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    Quote Originally Posted by FMP View Post
    DeV

    Out of curiosity, did the DF have many LHD patrols and was this for the purposes of overseas deployments?



    Ps ,,,, sorry mate, just sussed your point, "There are pictures" not actually the one pictured. Ignore above question. Thanks for the pic though, like it
    LHD vehicles started being bought when SFOR/KFOR was happening. It made life easier for all, and the majority of the world still drives on the wrong side of the road. Particularly the ones with European influences.

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  31. #395
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmití View Post
    The Pajero serving in the Irish DF is not straight off the showroom either. It has been greatly modified for Irish Service, and not just the addition of the Bumper for the Antennae. The entire lighting system is military standard. (the Nissan's never had this). The Electrical system is designed to take whatever military radio system is in use at the time. The Patrol had an additional battery in a box, and you couldn't switch off the car, if you were using the SINGCAR. The wheels are also non-standard, replacing the standard wide alloys with narrow steel wheels. Suspension would have to be dramatically altered to accommodate this option.
    We didn't just go down to the local 4x4 dealer and ask "does it come in green?". Pretty sure the specs were posted here.
    I don't see the advantage your selection has over the three diamonds, other than it being made in Europe. And there is a thing with Antennae roof mounts.... they add greatly to the roof clearance. Ireland still has plenty of low bridges... all will fit a car or jeep. Many won't take much else. Someone said "2m height is plenty", and poured concrete.
    It actually sounds like a really descent vehicle, thanks for the update. Finally a bit of background.

    One question, why bother replacing it (title of thread)? Why not stick with it? Okay that's two questions but you see my point, if it ticks your box's why get rid (if you are, again thread title).

    The point of this thread is to look at an alternative to the Pajero is it not? It reads like a "reason to keep the Pajero".

    I must have fired dozens of options up on this thread over the months from full blown MOTS to COTS, all everyone keeps saying is no, shit, crap, don't need, can't afford, too big, too small, to fat, too tall,,,,,,,lets see your contenders then, because there cant be much else out there readily available in Ireland / Europe that hasn't been covered at least in passing. By "your" I mean across the forum na grohmití not yourself in particular mate, but if you have some personal favorites would love to see them too.

    Really like jack nastyface Rugged Robin though . There is no golden goose.
    We travel not for trafficking alone,
    By hotter winds our fiery hearts are fanned,
    For lust of knowing what should not be known,
    We make the Golden Journey to Samarkand.

  32. #396
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    Nothing decent about the pajero. Useless hairdressers 4x4
    Sir I cant find my peltors........Private they are on your face

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  34. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by spider pig View Post
    Nothing decent about the pajero. Useless hairdressers 4x4
    Ah ha, some support at last, well done spider pig
    We travel not for trafficking alone,
    By hotter winds our fiery hearts are fanned,
    For lust of knowing what should not be known,
    We make the Golden Journey to Samarkand.

  35. #398
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    The Older Pajero was better.

  36. #399
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmití View Post
    The Pajero serving in the Irish DF is not straight off the showroom either.The entire lighting system is military standard. (the Nissan's never had this).Not true, all Nissan Patrols purchsed from 2004 on had full military lighting
    Suspension would have to be dramatically altered to accommodate this option.
    Unfortunately this is not the case and we have are having a lot of problems with the rear
    Quote Originally Posted by FMP View Post
    It actually sounds like a really descent vehicle, thanks for the update. Finally a bit of background.

    One question, why bother replacing it (title of thread)? Why not stick with it? Okay that's two questions but you see my point, if it ticks your box's why get rid (if you are, again thread title). The reason for replacement most probably has something to do with the excessive cost of maintaining the flleet. compared to the Patrols we are replacing a lot more major components, at a much younger age. I used to be a fan of Mitsubishi but 6 years of being involved in the upkeep of Pajeros has turned me completly against them. If you gave me a mitsubishi, I'd take it, but I'd sell it as soon as possible
    CRIME SCENE INSTIGATOR

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  38. #400
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    Possibly its down to economy of scale in that the size of the DF order may not be large enough to entice/pay a maker of a more appropriate wagon to build in the spec designated by the DF.

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