Originally posted by Craghopper
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We travel not for trafficking alone,
By hotter winds our fiery hearts are fanned,
For lust of knowing what should not be known,
We make the Golden Journey to Samarkand.
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Originally posted by na grohmità View PostWhat experience does your lot have in CIT? Genuine question.
on countless occasions we have had the target and escorting vehicles shot at / IED'd / ambushed whilst providing this duty - what experience does ONH have of it's target or escort vehicles ever being contacted during escort duties? very little in comparison.
do you really think it is ok to use an admin vehicle in a security role? does the protection only start when the men debus, and stops again when they all get back in the van?
if the threat is there (which it must be or they wouldn't be there) - then you need to be able to defend and counter it - and you cannot do either while sitting in a bog standard car or van - regardless of experience, or lack of it.Last edited by RoyalGreenJacket; 10 July 2014, 12:12.
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Originally posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Postprobably well over 50 years (and the rest) worth of experience in conducting escort duties in different theaters - with about 30 years escorting PIT (Police in Transit) aswell as escorting EIT (Explosives in Transit) in Northern Ireland and i've done hundreds of such duties personally, as well as almost 2 decades each in Afghanistan and Iraq providing mobile escort duties (including in particular Cash (and Gold) in Transit) - some of which i have also done myself in a Snatch, are you saying because that being escorted is Cash and not Policemen or Explosives or other important people / cargo - we know very little on the subject and the protection afforded to the individuals providing the security should be any less?
on countless occasions we have had the target and escorting vehicles shot at / IED'd / ambushed whilst providing this duty - what experience does ONH have of it's target or escort vehicles ever being contacted during escort duties? very little in comparison.
do you really think it is ok to use an admin vehicle in a security role? does the protection only start when the men debus, and stops again when they all get back in the van?
if the threat is there (which it must be or they wouldn't be there) - then you need to be able to defend and counter it - and you cannot do either while sitting in a bog standard car or van - regardless of experience, or lack of it.
So no limerick then?
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Just something everyone is overlooking in relation to CITs.
Its not the cash being protected, its the Garda escorting the cash with the DF being there to protect them under ATCP and being governed by COD 6.
Unless the Gardai or Army are directly threatened the response is limited, there fore while the cash may be high risk, by having a high profile the risk level is lowered. The vehicle used and its spec related to that role is really not an issue.
However the general everyday requirement for an effective 4x4 military vehicle for operational use in either peacekeeping duties or operations overseas is far removed from that vehicle used for chasing CIts.
Needs to be two specific vehicles bearing in mind the separation of roles.Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe
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Originally posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Postprobably well over 50 years (and the rest) worth of experience in conducting escort duties in different theaters - with about 30 years escorting PIT (Police in Transit) aswell as escorting EIT (Explosives in Transit) in Northern Ireland and i've done hundreds of such duties personally, as well as almost 2 decades each in Afghanistan and Iraq providing mobile escort duties (including in particular Cash (and Gold) in Transit) - some of which i have also done myself in a Snatch, are you saying because that being escorted is Cash and not Policemen or Explosives or other important people / cargo - we know very little on the subject and the protection afforded to the individuals providing the security should be any less?
on countless occasions we have had the target and escorting vehicles shot at / IED'd / ambushed whilst providing this duty - what experience does ONH have of it's target or escort vehicles ever being contacted during escort duties? very little in comparison.
do you really think it is ok to use an admin vehicle in a security role? does the protection only start when the men debus, and stops again when they all get back in the van?
if the threat is there (which it must be or they wouldn't be there) - then you need to be able to defend and counter it - and you cannot do either while sitting in a bog standard car or van - regardless of experience, or lack of it.
[QUOTE=hptmurphy;414404]Just something everyone is overlooking in relation to CITs.
Its not the cash being protected, its the Garda escorting the cash with the DF being there to protect them under ATCP and being governed by COD 6.
Unless the Gardai or Army are directly threatened the response is limited, there fore while the cash may be high risk, by having a high profile the risk level is lowered. The vehicle used and its spec related to that role is really not an issue.
That remains to be seen as no one has every been stupid enough to attempt to rob a DF escorted CIT.
However the general everyday requirement for an effective 4x4 military vehicle for operational use in either peacekeeping duties or operations overseas is far removed from that vehicle used for chasing CIts.
Needs to be two specific vehicles bearing in mind the separation of roles.
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Originally posted by hptmurphy View PostIts not the cash being protected, its the Garda escorting the cash with the DF being there to protect them under ATCP and being governed by COD 6.
but tell me how can they do this sat inside a Transit Van or glorified civvie 4x4?
they cannot.
we had armoured vehicles, and vehicles we could effectively return fire from in order to be able to provide protection whilst mobile - because the threat doesn't stop when you start moving.
ONH lose this capability and the protection afforded to the Garda ceases as soon as they get back on the bus.
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RGJ I understand where you are coming from but you said it yourself, your escorts were effectively in war zones. Be it Northern Ireland, Iraq or Afghanistan. The threat was there and the BA adapted its vehicles to the situation.
Until there is a greater threat to CIT or one is hit I can't see the cars being armoured or becoming weapons platforms.
A civie 4x4 works for now and is easy enough to get out of.
Drug tests for everyone who thinks a transit should be used 😜Sir I cant find my peltors........Private they are on your face
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Originally posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Postand ONH do a fantastic job at it while deployed on foot out of their vehicles.
but tell me how can they do this sat inside a Transit Van or glorified civvie 4x4?
they cannot.
we had armoured vehicles, and vehicles we could effectively return fire from in order to be able to provide protection whilst mobile - because the threat doesn't stop when you start moving.
ONH lose this capability and the protection afforded to the Garda ceases as soon as they get back on the bus.
Can the occupants fire under complete cover? No, there are no firing points, only the driver and co-driver can see to the sides
The top cover's head and upper body is provided armour protection (the same as our guys) helmet & body armour
The same for the tail end Charlie, except he doesn't get lower body protection because the back door(s) are open
The occupants of Snatch aren't significantly better off
It wouldn't stand up to an RPG either
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Originally posted by spider pig View PostA civie 4x4 works for now and is easy enough to get out of.
Drug tests for everyone who thinks a transit should be used 😜
Last edited by northie; 10 July 2014, 22:37.
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Originally posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Postand ONH do a fantastic job at it while deployed on foot out of their vehicles.
but tell me how can they do this sat inside a Transit Van or glorified civvie 4x4?
they cannot.
we had armoured vehicles, and vehicles we could effectively return fire from in order to be able to provide protection whilst mobile - because the threat doesn't stop when you start moving.
ONH lose this capability and the protection afforded to the Garda ceases as soon as they get back on the bus.
It was the year of fire...the year of destruction...the year we took back what was ours.
It was the year of rebirth...the year of great sadness...the year of pain...and the year of joy.
It was a new age...It was the end of history.
It was the year everything changed.
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Originally posted by CTU View Post
Our conventional Gardai are unarmed"Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"
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