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  • As in all Movies it has to sell to the Audience i.e.
    Michael Collins
    1 No Car Bombs in 1916-1922
    2 Ned Broy was not killed (he was 3rd Commissioner of An Garda Siochana)

    I was talking to one of the men from Jadotville and he said it was pretty accurate except for i.e.
    1. Quinlan was not shot
    2. Chopper was not knocked down with 84 Recoilless Rifle
    3. Quinlan decked Kane (two Kerrymen)
    4. Reidy (Billy) was the 1st man shot but he did not fall from a chopper

    Films need to sell but the main point is those men were vindicated & in MY OPINION Comdt Pat Quinlan for nothing else deserves an MMG for keeping all 155+ men alive under savage enemy fire with no help from the UN. The Comdt deserves the medal posthumously & I doubt anyone of the soldiers still alive would resent the MMG been awarded to him.

    Lesser people deserving have received DSM's

    Maybe we should start a petition547002_518435234843067_1771956249_n.jpg

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    • Parting shot from An Taoiseach

      Medals for Jadotville

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      • What medal though?
        For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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        • I'd imagine a new one, or award unit and/or DSMs

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          • From what I've heard it's going to be a newly designed medal.

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            • Specifically for Jadotville I hope with very specific criteria around that even, otherwise there will be a queue out the door looking for them as the DSMs have been debased in value.
              Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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              • Its a new medal

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                • Cheapens their actions somewhat casting a new "participation" medal when so many were reccommended for legitimate medals by Comdt Quinlan. Are his recommendations being considered or will they be issued in addition to?
                  It is only by contemplation of the incompetent that we can appreciate the difficulties and accomplishments of the competent.

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                  • What is the point of a new medal. Either they should receive one of the existing bravery medals or not. An "attaboy" medal for participation is an insult. Given that "displaying outstanding qualities of leadership, resource, devotion to duty and humanity in guiding the Defence Forces successfully through a most critical time" is a legitimate criteria for awarding the medal. Look at some of the citations of the awards given out in the Congo and you will see that it can be general enough to cover any situation.

                    Here is the citation for Pte Peter Madigan "For distinguished service with the United Nations Force in the Republic of the Congo, for outstanding devotion to duty over several periods of service. Private Madigan's loyalty, steadiness and general trustworthiness made him a very valuable man wherever he served, and these attributes, together with his devotion to duty, proved to be a steadying and beneficial influence all his fellow soldiers."

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                    • I have 2 schools of though:

                      1 - issue a new medal - this is probably fair as everyone who was there will get one and depending on the citation/criteria it would recognise their achievements and treatment by the DF

                      2 - reassess the recommendations to the original medals board - but then not everyone who was there will be recognised but then again they already have a unit citation so maybe that would be OK

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                      • Here is the citation for Pte Peter Madigan "For distinguished service with the United Nations Force in the Republic of the Congo, for outstanding devotion to duty over several periods of service. Private Madigan's loyalty, steadiness and general trustworthiness made him a very valuable man wherever he served, and these attributes, together with his devotion to duty, proved to be a steadying and beneficial influence all his fellow soldiers."
                        That should be on a recommendation for promotion and nor for a medal linked with gallantry. Distinguished service is often confused with specific acts of gallantry and medals awarded in the wrong category as a result.

                        The Congo awards are very loose when it comes to awarding with very little continuity in criteria other than being in a location and being slightly above average in service. look at the awards of the MMG and see who specific they are, now look at how DSMs were dished out like water and still are to a certain degree.

                        Awards should be offered by peers rather than sought by wearers which has far too often become the norm.

                        My one and only service medal, I did the time got the medal no questions as most who receive things like UN Medals etc, the criteria is specific, anything else depends on the day of the week and how the recomendation was made and why!
                        Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
                          That should be on a recommendation for promotion and nor for a medal linked with gallantry. Distinguished service is often confused with specific acts of gallantry and medals awarded in the wrong category as a result.

                          The Congo awards are very loose when it comes to awarding with very little continuity in criteria other than being in a location and being slightly above average in service. look at the awards of the MMG and see who specific they are, now look at how DSMs were dished out like water and still are to a certain degree.

                          Awards should be offered by peers rather than sought by wearers which has far too often become the norm.

                          My one and only service medal, I did the time got the medal no questions as most who receive things like UN Medals etc, the criteria is specific, anything else depends on the day of the week and how the recomendation was made and why!

                          In fairness, we don't know from the citation exactly what that soldier did to be even considered as worth of a DSM

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                          • Originally posted by Rhodes View Post
                            From what I've heard it's going to be a newly designed medal.
                            Also heard this. Why they can't award an existing award (DSM/MMG) is beyond me....
                            "Well, stone me! We've had cocaine, bribery and Arsenal scoring two goals at home. But just when you thought there were truly no surprises left in football, Vinnie Jones turns out to be an international player!" (Jimmy Greaves)!"

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                            • Originally posted by Truck Driver View Post
                              Also heard this. Why they can't award an existing award (DSM/MMG) is beyond me....
                              There have been around 150 MMGs & DSMs awarded since they were introduced (this would bring the total up to 300)

                              Should the CQ who got whatever for the lads get the same class DSM as the CO who would get private radio operator (all random examples).

                              I'd give a new Jadotville service medal (say equivalent to 2nd class DSM) something along the lines of "in recognition of the individual and collective acts of bravery, courage, leadership, resource and devotion to duty as a member of A Coy 35 Inf Bn ONUC (or attached there to) in that at Jafotville they did inspite of overwhelming odds resisted all attacks in the best traditions of the DF......."

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                              • Its a general example. I've read most of the citations of awards from this period and tbh they don't really cut it.

                                "in recognition of the individual and collective acts of bravery, courage, leadership, resource and devotion to duty as a member of A Coy 35 Inf Bn ONUC (or attached there to) in that at Jafotville they did inspite of overwhelming odds resisted all attacks in the best traditions of the DF..
                                Sounds good. and the medal would be unique but the purists will say why not the existing medals?

                                Which brings me back to the actual awarding of medals... The criteria must be specific and we need to look at Unit Citations and awards. There were people engaged in events where one or two persons had awards made where whole units did their utmost and went unrecognised.
                                Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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