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Thread: jadotVille

  1. #226
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    They have already received a unit citation

  2. #227
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Obviously not worth the paper its written of if the government feel that medals should be award.

    We need to adopt unit citations as awards as opposed to makey up excuses for not awarding medals when required.
    Just visiting

  3. #228
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    well ,ok, what happens when an award is given to a ship's Captain? does he earn the gong or does the whole ship's crew ? It's very hard to judge when there are collective actions. If you leave out one of the entire Jadotville company, then a fuss will kick off...

  4. #229
    2/Lt Bam Bam's Avatar
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    would the citation for this medal be something along the lines of:

    "In recognition for the deplorable treatment from the Irish people, government and military authorities endured by the officers and men of A Coy 35th UN Batt ONUC for the majority of their adult lives after the action fought in Jadotville September 1961. This medal has been issued not so much to recognise service in keeping with the best traditions of the Irish Defence Forces but as a means of 'closing the book' on a subject wrongly seen as shameful and cowardly by the Defence Forces and Irish Government at the time."
    It is only by contemplation of the incompetent that we can appreciate the difficulties and accomplishments of the competent.

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  6. #230
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
    well ,ok, what happens when an award is given to a ship's Captain? does he earn the gong or does the whole ship's crew ? It's very hard to judge when there are collective actions. If you leave out one of the entire Jadotville company, then a fuss will kick off...
    "For distinguished service as captain of confidence and leadership ...... His personal skill, dedication and devotion to duty...."
    Lt Cdr Mellett DSM

  7. #231
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
    well ,ok, what happens when an award is given to a ship's Captain? does he earn the gong or does the whole ship's crew ? It's very hard to judge when there are collective actions. If you leave out one of the entire Jadotville company, then a fuss will kick off...
    There exactly lies the problem where ships captains have gotten medals but the actual close up work was done by the peasants below decks.
    Unless there are specific actions attributable to individuals the whole lot get to wear a meritious citation clasp or ribbon on their uniform in some form, those who carried out individual actions get a higher award.
    Setting the bar for Unit citations and individual awards being the problem.
    Just visiting

  8. #232
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    He got paid, he was a ships captain, made the decisions every day, other captains undertook action that never made the media that took similar skill and dedication!

    Its was all creditable towards his future promotion. His actions etc were useless if everyone of the ships company didn't work with him.

    the searider cox'n got another one, but the boarding party didn't get anything.......

    Mark Mellet was an exceptional naval officer, but there were others as good if not better at times who did the same job...without getting the medal.

    I think it was Rory Costello who put Aoife to sea with a reduced crew the night of the Kowloon Bridge incident....Noel Goulding prevented the Deirdre being lost when here forward store flooded. Brian O'Shea pulled off some fantastic seaman ship on Emer during Hurricane Charley..medals no.......but to their crews were just as good!

    In my brief period in the NS I could list 10 people who went over and above in a very short period, but just drew their pay every week
    Just visiting

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  10. #233
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    He got paid, he was a ships captain, made the decisions every day, other captains undertook action that never made the media that took similar skill and dedication!

    Its was all creditable towards his future promotion. His actions etc were useless if everyone of the ships company didn't work with him.

    the searider cox'n got another one, but the boarding party didn't get anything.......

    Mark Mellet was an exceptional naval officer, but there were others as good if not better at times who did the same job...without getting the medal.

    I think it was Rory Costello who put Aoife to sea with a reduced crew the night of the Kowloon Bridge incident....Noel Goulding prevented the Deirdre being lost when here forward store flooded. Brian O'Shea pulled off some fantastic seaman ship on Emer during Hurricane Charley..medals no.......but to their crews were just as good!

    In my brief period in the NS I could list 10 people who went over and above in a very short period, but just drew their pay every week
    Excellent leadership should be awarded where justified.

    Were all these people recommended for medals and a medals board said no?

  11. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    He got paid, he was a ships captain, made the decisions every day, other captains undertook action that never made the media that took similar skill and dedication!

    Its was all creditable towards his future promotion. His actions etc were useless if everyone of the ships company didn't work with him.

    the searider cox'n got another one, but the boarding party didn't get anything.......

    Mark Mellet was an exceptional naval officer, but there were others as good if not better at times who did the same job...without getting the medal.

    I think it was Rory Costello who put Aoife to sea with a reduced crew the night of the Kowloon Bridge incident....Noel Goulding prevented the Deirdre being lost when here forward store flooded. Brian O'Shea pulled off some fantastic seaman ship on Emer during Hurricane Charley..medals no.......but to their crews were just as good!

    In my brief period in the NS I could list 10 people who went over and above in a very short period, but just drew their pay every week
    When the now COS got his DSM, others were also nominated for their actions. However only his and the coxn got them. CoS appealed for all to get reconition, but was told to take his or take none.
    Well, there's good news and bad news. The bad news is that Neil will be taking over both branches, and some of you will lose your jobs. Those of you who are kept on will have to relocate to Swindon, if you wanna stay. I know, gutting. On a more positive note, the good news is, I've been promoted, so... every cloud. You're still thinking about the bad news aren't you?

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  13. #235
    Non Temetis Messor The real Jack's Avatar
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    Hahaha great leadership so, wouldn't risk losing his own shiny over the plebs getting some recognition.
    Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

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  15. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by The real Jack View Post
    Hahaha great leadership so, wouldn't risk losing his own shiny over the plebs getting some recognition.
    That's your way of looking at it. Had he refused his (and the coxn) then nobody would have got recognition for that particular action. As it stands, his award (while he serves) is always associated with the ship and it's crew at that time.
    Same happened for the Crew of L.E. Aisling after Air India. Everyone on the ship those days went through the same horrible scenes, and got on with their job. Only 4 got medals for it.
    Well, there's good news and bad news. The bad news is that Neil will be taking over both branches, and some of you will lose your jobs. Those of you who are kept on will have to relocate to Swindon, if you wanna stay. I know, gutting. On a more positive note, the good news is, I've been promoted, so... every cloud. You're still thinking about the bad news aren't you?

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  17. #237
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmití View Post
    When the now COS got his DSM, others were also nominated for their actions. However only his and the coxn got them. CoS appealed for all to get reconition, but was told to take his or take none.
    And it should have been all or nothing!

    Excellent leadership should be awarded where justified.

    Were all these people recommended for medals and a medals board said no?
    Its down to circumstances in that case.... a reservist corporal could have displayed 'excellent leadership' skills at any point in his tenure, but will it ever be recognised?

    Were the others ever recognised...nope but for a brief moment in time they rose to a challenge but because it didn't get the PR they just got on with it.

    Same happened for the Crew of L.E. Aisling after Air India.
    I purposely didn't mention that one for reasons I'm not going into......if everything was a clear cut the Cliona three should have got medals but similar circumstances arose on Aisling but medals were awarded..and it wasn't the firsts time in Aislings case...

    cryptic or what.....!!!
    Just visiting

  18. #238
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    No problem with the CO getting a gong etc for pulling off a positive outcome if the circumstances are such that his/her career goes south if the mission turns sour. The Board wont be interested in the skipper highlighting crew shortcomings.

  19. #239
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    I'm delighted the men of A Company are getting recognition in the form of a medal finally after all these years but I have a few questions.

    1. Is the medal only to be ever issued to the men from A Company who were at Jadotville?
    2. If yes, is that not just a bit of a sop to them? "Here's your medal now shhhhh about the whole thing"
    3. Surely an already established medal would have been far far more fitting? (MMG or DSM? or a new medal created for the men of A Company but then freely awardable after)
    I knew a simple soldier boy.....
    Who grinned at life in empty joy,
    Slept soundly through the lonesome dark,
    And whistled early with the lark.

    In winter trenches, cowed and glum,
    With crumps and lice and lack of rum,
    He put a bullet through his brain.
    And no one spoke of him again.

    You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
    Who cheer when soldier lads march by,
    Sneak home and pray you'll never know
    The hell where youth and laughter go.

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  21. #240
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    Apropos of nothing, I always found it odd that our highest military award expressly excludes actions carried out on war service from the criteria.

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  23. #241
    Lt Colonel Buck's Avatar
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    http://www.thejournal.ie/jadotville-...03551-Nov2017/

    This whole thing is a cluster fvck.

    1. A made up, essentially mingy medal to get people to shut up again about the injustice.
    2. No room for people to attend. I get that they want to follow the usual DF format for medal ceremonies but this is hardly those.
    I knew a simple soldier boy.....
    Who grinned at life in empty joy,
    Slept soundly through the lonesome dark,
    And whistled early with the lark.

    In winter trenches, cowed and glum,
    With crumps and lice and lack of rum,
    He put a bullet through his brain.
    And no one spoke of him again.

    You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
    Who cheer when soldier lads march by,
    Sneak home and pray you'll never know
    The hell where youth and laughter go.

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  25. #242
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    Keep the audience numbers to a minimum and you reduce the chance of the "minister" being cornered and asked difficult questions. There is no shortage of space for family of those survivors (most of whom or now at advanced age) in Costume Barracks.
    Same askole decided to do an NS med Medal parade on a weekend in Rosslare so he would be close to his constituency. Ignoring completely the fact that ship, its crew and their families, not to mention the obligatory GoH would all have to travel to accomodate him.
    P.S. There is fork all on the pier in rosslare.
    Is there no end to this mans disrespect for the Defence Forces and their family?
    Last edited by na grohmití; 19th November 2017 at 15:00.
    Well, there's good news and bad news. The bad news is that Neil will be taking over both branches, and some of you will lose your jobs. Those of you who are kept on will have to relocate to Swindon, if you wanna stay. I know, gutting. On a more positive note, the good news is, I've been promoted, so... every cloud. You're still thinking about the bad news aren't you?

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  27. #243
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buck View Post
    http://www.thejournal.ie/jadotville-...03551-Nov2017/

    This whole thing is a cluster fvck.

    1. A made up, essentially mingy medal to get people to shut up again about the injustice.
    2. No room for people to attend. I get that they want to follow the usual DF format for medal ceremonies but this is hardly those.
    It has to be a “mingy” medal as the medal boards didn’t recommend awards. I haven’t seen the citation of anything but in one way it singles out their achievements.

    I’ve never been in Athlone but I would have taught that you’d fit more in a gym than in a dining hall.

    Whatever about friends and family being invited I’m not sure why IUNVA things that anyone who wants to could turn up, it never works like that.

  28. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    It has to be a “mingy” medal as the medal boards didn’t recommend awards. I haven’t seen the citation of anything but in one way it singles out their achievements.

    I’ve never been in Athlone but I would have taught that you’d fit more in a gym than in a dining hall.

    Whatever about friends and family being invited I’m not sure why IUNVA things that anyone who wants to could turn up, it never works like that.
    Allowing one guest per recipient isn't how its usually done either.
    Well, there's good news and bad news. The bad news is that Neil will be taking over both branches, and some of you will lose your jobs. Those of you who are kept on will have to relocate to Swindon, if you wanna stay. I know, gutting. On a more positive note, the good news is, I've been promoted, so... every cloud. You're still thinking about the bad news aren't you?

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  30. #245
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmit� View Post
    Allowing one guest per recipient isn't how its usually done either.
    agreed

  31. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    It has to be a “mingy” medal as the medal boards didn’t recommend awards. I haven’t seen the citation of anything but in one way it singles out their achievements.

    I’ve never been in Athlone but I would have taught that you’d fit more in a gym than in a dining hall.

    Whatever about friends and family being invited I’m not sure why IUNVA things that anyone who wants to could turn up, it never works like that.
    To be fair, there are definitely exceptions that can be made in this case.

    And the dining hall in Athlone is a good size but the gym would almost certainly be a better size/layout
    I knew a simple soldier boy.....
    Who grinned at life in empty joy,
    Slept soundly through the lonesome dark,
    And whistled early with the lark.

    In winter trenches, cowed and glum,
    With crumps and lice and lack of rum,
    He put a bullet through his brain.
    And no one spoke of him again.

    You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
    Who cheer when soldier lads march by,
    Sneak home and pray you'll never know
    The hell where youth and laughter go.

  32. #247
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    The Jadotville Medal presentation is taking place today.
    I still believe that a DSM should have been awarded to the sub-unit as a unit award.

    Attached Images Attached Images

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  34. #248
    Lord Chief Bottlewasher trellheim's Avatar
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    pics on twitter


    "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

    "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

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  36. #249
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    About time. Any other Army would have awarded medals after the battle. These men had to wait 56 years

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  38. #250
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    White wash.....
    Just visiting

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