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Thread: jadotVille

  1. #51
    Rittmeister Herald's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    Questions ....

    If I was to read just one book on this subject which one should it be?

    What decoration, if any, are actual unit members at the time covered by the award able to wear? A ribbon on a previously awarded medal (UN) or no personal award.
    I read the one by Rose Doyle, Heroes of Jadotville I think its called, a few years back, Its pretty good, although I think I found the layout a bit unusual.

  2. #52
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Herald View Post
    Thats him!! I think Margaret thatcher buggered up any chance the extradition proceedings from Ireland might proceed.
    As far as I can recall, he ran in the European elections at some stage, didn't get elected, but got a large enough vote in Munster all the same.
    Was supported by now TD Seamus Healy.... Healy went on to be Mayor of Clonmel and having shown his Republican colours was not invited to the Shamrock Parade in Kickham barracks, the DF was not represented on the reviewing stand for the Patricks day parade and the Troop passing the review stand did not salute due to his presence. Was the last Shamrock Parade held in Kickham Bks.
    Time for another break I think......

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  4. #53
    Commander in Chief apod's Avatar
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    If you can get your hands on it "No white feather" by Sean o Foghlu is a personal account of what it was like during the battle, the run up to it and the aftermath.
    Sean is still with us albeit retired and his son is still serving.A true gent and a legend in his own lifetime.A privelage and an honour to know him.
    Infantry Corps - An Lámh Comhrac


    "Let us be clear about three facts:First of all.All battles and all wars are won in the end by the Infantryman.Secondly the Infantryman bears the brunt of the fighting,his casualties are heavier and he suffers greater extremes of fatigue and discomfort than the other arms.Thirdly,the art of the Infantryman is less stereotyped and harder to acquire than that of any other arm".
    -- Field Marshall Earl Wavell.1948

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  6. #54
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    There used to be a Sgt in the FCA in Cork in the 80s who was one of those held captive after the ceasefire. He was always popular at GOC inspections, where his medals always drew compliment and respect from whatever general or colonel was present. At the time many at that rank would have been young Lts with ONUC. While the Authorities may have wanted the whole episode to go away, those serving, at all ranks felt differently.
    He never told stories to us about the Congo. He didn't need to. The medal was all we needed to know.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

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  8. #55
    Amadan Orion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by apod View Post
    If you can get your hands on it "No white feather" by Sean o Foghlu is a personal account of what it was like during the battle, the run up to it and the aftermath.
    Sean is still with us albeit retired and his son is still serving.A true gent and a legend in his own lifetime.A privelage and an honour to know him.
    DCU has a copy in their lending library, I'll continue my search for a copy online


    No white feather: a soldier's review of military life in the Irish Army & U. N. Service in Belgian Congo, including the Battle of Jadotville 1961
    Foghl, Sen
    Book. English.
    Published Dunboyne, Co. Meath, Ireland: Book Republic, 2011

    Available at DCU.

    DCU One available in Main Lending 967.51031/OFO
    Barcode Shelfmark Loan type Status
    100080855 Main Lending 967.51031/OFO 3 Weeks Available

  9. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhodes View Post
    Jim Cusack wrote it so you know its bullshit.
    Jim "AK 46" Cusack.
    Last edited by terrier; 11th July 2016 at 01:21.

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  11. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    DCU has a copy in their lending library, I'll continue my search for a copy online


    No white feather: a soldier's review of military life in the Irish Army & U. N. Service in Belgian Congo, including the Battle of Jadotville 1961
    Foghl, Sen
    Book. English.
    Published Dunboyne, Co. Meath, Ireland: Book Republic, 2011

    Available at DCU.

    DCU One available in Main Lending 967.51031/OFO
    Barcode Shelfmark Loan type Status
    100080855 Main Lending 967.51031/OFO 3 Weeks Available
    I have one if anyone innerested.

  12. #58
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    I hope the production stimulates a debate about the merits of the operational/political decision taken to send the detachment to an isolated/untenable position and takes the focus off PQ who appears to have been scapegoated . Let history be unkind to all those who are culpable for putting the unit in a completely impossible predicament be they military or political.
    Jado kicked off only a few short years after Dien Phen Pu and the shortcomings of such expeditions would have been quite topical at the time.
    One has to wonder if any lessons were learned from Jado given the loss of Ptes Doherty & Joyce in 1981 when they were placed in an isolated and unsupported position.

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  14. #59
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    The Army appeared to be determined not to learn from the large scale global disturbance, the 1939-1945 event, about being properly equipped. 17 years after WW2, they went to war barely equipped to fight in 1939. It's a miracle that they had as few casualties as they did.

  15. #60
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Let history be unkind to all those who are culpable for putting the unit in a completely impossible predicament be they military or political.
    Given most of those in question and their political masters are dead and buried, the wrongs of the past righted and the fact we didn't lose anyone during this action its really a non story.

    The Army appeared to be determined not to learn from the large scale global disturbance, the 1939-1945 event, about being properly equipped. 17 years after WW2, they went to war barely equipped to fight in 1939. It's a miracle that they had as few casualties as they did
    I think you have look at the army in context in this period. We were in effect a third world nation whose primary income was that which emigrants sent back from foreign shores, the country hadn't a bob and the DF was basically an unfunded dumping ground.

    Succesive Fianna Fail governments under De Valera were kept submissive as they were terrified that the army could still be rallied to overthrow them should they be required, so.. give them nothing just in case it comes back to bite you.

    The Congo was the trigger for improvements in equipment for the army which along with the troubles and further UN missions finally brought around some progress, but as usual piecemeal and very wasteful.

    Had we partaken in global conflict the experience might have been different but as for reasons discussed in the past, by not participating it put the DF back by 20 years, which took another 30 to recover from.
    Time for another break I think......

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  17. #61
    Lieutenant X-RayOne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danno View Post
    I hope the production stimulates a debate about the merits of the operational/political decision taken to send the detachment to an isolated/untenable position.........One has to wonder if any lessons were learned from Jado given the loss of Ptes Doherty & Joyce in 1981 when they were placed in an isolated and unsupported position......
    similar shortcomings were found with EUFOR Chad/CAR......similar concerns have been voiced about UNDOF......this forum has a plethora of posts about Op Pontus / EUNAVFOR MED near Libian waters........

    our political masters still percivere with the illusion that Irish troops overseas:
    1. are going to be welcomed by all encountered because we are Irish / neutral
    2. will never have to actually engage an enemy because we are "peacekeepers"

    and consequently are blissfully as ignorant as those political masters that sent the first troops to Congo.

    lessons learned???
    The people of England have been led in Mesopotamia into a trap from which it will be hard to escape with dignity and honour. They have been tricked into it by a steady withholding of information. The Baghdad communiqus are belated, insincere, incomplete.....It is a disgrace to our imperial record, and may soon be too inflamed for any ordinary cure.We are to-day not far from a disaster.

    T.E. Lawrence, 2 Aug 1920.

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  19. #62
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    The problem as I see it lies with the vocal loony left in the dail, who equate anything of a military nature as pandering to the needs of the USA, NATO and all the other nasty warmongers. Sure if we could just convince them to stop using guns then we wouldn't need them at all at all.

    Unfortunately the government of the day listens to these freaks, whose collective opinions on the global security situation is about as researched as the average sunday morning comment on journal.ie.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

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  21. #63
    Brigadier General
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    ie Mick Wallace the hippie tax cheating nama developer

  22. #64
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    Just something I noticed with the screenshots released of this Jabotville film. Jamie Dornan plays Commandant Pat Quinlin and yet in the picture in the link below he's wearing a brassard with a 3 star private rank.

    http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV...4MjI@._V1_.jpg

    Might be explained in the film, but hope it is not one of those films that makes silly mistakes that could be easily picked up by anyone with a basic military knowledge.

  23. #65
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    They got the ranks and equipment right otherwise. Surprising this would be left in as a mistake. There must be reason for it.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

  24. #66
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    There is something in the back of that disaster area I call my mind about officers dumping rank badges to confuse snipers, I know ; standard practice now, but I don't think it was then....
    "We will hold out until our last bullet is spent. Could do with some whiskey"
    Radio transmission, siege of Jadotville DR Congo. September 1961.
    Illegitimi non carborundum

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  26. #67
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    Why would he have both his officer rank marking and private badge on at the same time?
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

  27. #68
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    My grandfather served until 1962 and went right thru the war period and said that the end of WW2 saw the immediate and wholesale shrinking of the Army, NS and AC and wartime purchases were dumped or allowed to run into the ground. Spares became difficult or downright impossible to get, funds were perpetually tight, recruitment was token, retention of personnel difficult and morale collapsed. Facilities such as Married Quarters were in seriously bad order. It wasn't until the Sixties that money began to reach the DF again, but evidently not soon enough for the first Congo airlifts. My granddad's opinion was that it took the retirement or death of the wartime leadership, both military and govt and civil service, to get things moving again. He also said that there were many opportunities to acquire good equipment, postwar, especially US made equipment, but it was not taken up.

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  29. #69
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmit View Post
    Why would he have both his officer rank marking and private badge on at the same time?
    Oh well thats it then!, if they can't get the small things right, why bother at all.......and its not even a once off mistake.. seen it in a couple of stills!!!
    Time for another break I think......

  30. #70
    Lt Colonel Connaught Stranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Turkey View Post
    There is something in the back of that disaster area I call my mind about officers dumping rank badges to confuse snipers, I know ; standard practice now, but I don't think it was then....
    But here is a case of wearing both and not removing his officer insignia.

  31. #71
    Lt Colonel Connaught Stranger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    Oh well thats it then!, if they can't get the small things right, why bother at all.......and its not even a once off mistake.. seen it in a couple of stills!!!
    13495003_1724056431186507_3510167858718810798_n.jpg
    Period picture of the man himself as a P.O.W. wearing a brassard with Western Command Flash, picture to indistinct to say if 3 star are on it as well.
    Last edited by Connaught Stranger; 19th August 2016 at 09:28.

  32. #72
    gunner at heart Archimedes's Avatar
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    Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum

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  34. #73
    Viking HavocIRL's Avatar
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    To close with and kill the enemy in all weather conditions, night and day and over any terrain

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  36. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archimedes View Post
    did we have the fn in 61?

  37. #75
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    Yes, the FN was issued to the the troops in Jadotville.
    Im Ron Burgendy??

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