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White Paper - When is it due to be published?

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  • If we ever want to get back to the stage of having a full battalion overseas we need more infantry APC, approx 24 (that allows for a battalion overseas and a coy at home

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    • I find myself reminded of Churchill's characterisation: at war, but skulking.

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      • Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
        Have we ever had enough APCs? Or Armoured vehicles of any type for that matter? Sharing what we have between every unit is better than one unit having everything, and everyone else borrowing those vehicles for training purposes.
        Given the size of the current DF and its make up and the way in which Cavalry use the AFVs made available to them having one pool of vehicles for that Corps would be enough, if that pool of vehicles were sufficient to fill all the requirements envisaged in the role. We also need to have a troop sized element for deployments surplus to the core unit.

        Having a Cavalry Squadron in Cork without access to the core of its equipment and training facilities is a dead loss. Base all Cavalry units, ACS in the Curragh and stop fcuking around with fifedoms.Given most of these units operte below establishment on most occassions due to UN deployments, prison duties etc, are they actually effective, from experience, No ! In recent years the entire Corps would have difficulty in deploying an entire squadron plus support.

        the same should apply for the Mech Coy which should be independent at all times of the Cavalry requirement, again with its own deployable element, and then consideration must be given to the support requirements and additional vehicles.
        Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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        • Of course there may be times when you want your vehicles locally



          Or for an ex in Kilworth or wherever.

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          • whats with the gay pride flag at an anti war demo?
            "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
            "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

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            • That's not a gay pride flag.
              For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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              • Its a peace flag with seven colours, The pride flag as six

                Last edited by CTU; 9 July 2015, 20:13.
                It was the year of fire...the year of destruction...the year we took back what was ours.
                It was the year of rebirth...the year of great sadness...the year of pain...and the year of joy.
                It was a new age...It was the end of history.
                It was the year everything changed.

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                • New Zealand LAVs for sale
                  In more than a decade, just one tenth of New Zealand's Light Armoured Vehicles have ever seen action.

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                  • Originally posted by morpheus View Post
                    whats with the gay pride flag at an anti war demo?
                    Originally posted by CTU View Post
                    Its a peace flag....
                    Seems morpheus was right na grohmití...
                    Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

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                    • Originally posted by sofa View Post
                      Well we can safely say we've deployed more than that - Eriteria, Liberia, Chad, Kosovo, Lebanon (twice?), Syria etc

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                      • Originally posted by na grohmití View Post
                        Have we ever had enough APCs? Or Armoured vehicles of any type for that matter? Sharing what we have between every unit is better than one unit having everything, and everyone else borrowing those vehicles for training purposes.
                        Why not? Have a unit that actually has the kit required for modern Security environments with a 70-30% permanent-rotational/training coy. (With some rotational staff positions). The Army is a light infantry model anyway, what do you want apc's for!!?

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                        • As most deployments these days use APCs to protect troops, having a single unit which provides a core body of knowledge on mechanized ops to other light infantry troops who will use those vehicles on deployments, is probably the way it's going to work (for now at least). However, the idea of a dedicated battalion(s)/brigade specialising in mechanised infantry operations, sounds like it makes sense - you use what permenantly have/own. All down to policy and money at the end of the day.


                          Outside of funding the purchase of additional vehicles, what is the Army mindset regarding enough APCs to allow either

                          * two mech infantry battalions (one per brigade), or
                          * having one brigade as mechanised infantry, with the other light role brigade?

                          Outside of how things may or may not change in this regard as part of this new White Paper, did/does the Army have any intentions in this direction? During the mid-90s when the APC procurement plan was being put in place, I remember reading in the papers of rough plans that would require approx 150 APCs to give each battalion in the then 3 brigade Army, a mechanised infantry battalion. That might have been a journalist plucking figures to fill a paragraph or two, but was that the original intention? (Maybe along with Hawks & Super Pumas for the Air Corps and a couple of frigates for the NS... )


                          Everything will be revealed when the White Paper's launched next week. Interesting holiday reading...

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                          • Each battalion is supposed to have an APC Coy, although we didn't have enough Panhards either

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                            • Thanks for that bit of info DeV, never knew that. But the concept of having an APC coy per battalion - but not having enough APCs to fill out the requirement - sounds a little bit iffy. Can see where the idea is going, maybe let down in implementation due to lack of resources?

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                              • A failure to recognize the 1995 massacre at Srebenica as genocide sent the world body decades into the past.


                                A couple of reasons ireland should not be dictated by a un resolution

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