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you do realise that its the mortar and its smarts thats the expensive bit? That apart from israel's cardom there is no other modern system in service with any european army? That mobile mortars That spending a fortune on a modern mortar system and sticking it on a 1950's relic that we don't use would be stupid.
Ireland already owns the mortars, it just needs something to carry/tow them in a potentially hostile environment. aquiring PGM's and the designation systems would be expensive - i believe the US RCGM GPS guidence kit comes in at around $9000 each - but cheap compared to helicopters or fixed wing aircraft with PGM's, or armoured vehicles with direct fire weapons able to engage targets out to 5km.
Ireland needs a system that will fall within its budget, it either compromises - whether with a 'relic' built last week or any other system - or it gets squat.
Ireland already owns the mortars, it just needs something to carry/tow them in a potentially hostile environment. aquiring PGM's and the designation systems would be expensive - i believe the US RCGM GPS guidence kit comes in at around $9000 each - but cheap compared to helicopters or fixed wing aircraft with PGM's, or armoured vehicles with direct fire weapons able to engage targets out to 5km.
Ireland needs a system that will fall within its budget, it either compromises - whether with a 'relic' built last week or any other system - or it gets squat.
But the danes deployed 120mm mortars to Afghanistan without buying any new vehicles to tow them .Ditto the US marine corps, who use very light vehicles. Thats largely because 120mm is not there for mobile warfare, its designed to be fired from static positions.
After all even the british don't have mobile mortars, unless any of those Fv 432 antiques are still around.
...After all even the british don't have mobile mortars...
no, thats because we don't need mobile mortars, what with us taking the somewhat conservative view that when you go somewhere a bit shit where people might shoot at you, you take attack helicopters, fast jets, artillery, and long range precision attack missiles...
we are only having this discussion because Ireland, in a somewhat 'novel', or 'couragous' approach, doesn't, and leaves its patrolling soldiers vunerable to every bandit in Africa with an RPG, mortar, or ancient Chinese rocket. Irish troops either need mobile firepower to protect themselves, or they need very long ranged static firepower to protect them - and given that only the 120mm mortars go overseas, and 8km is not long ranged, the mortars have to be mobile. hence the quest for mobility...
no, thats because we don't need mobile mortars, what with us taking the somewhat conservative view that when you go somewhere a bit shit where people might shoot at you, you take attack helicopters, fast jets, artillery, and long range precision attack missiles...
we are only having this discussion because Ireland, in a somewhat 'novel', or 'couragous' approach, doesn't, and leaves its patrolling soldiers vunerable to every bandit in Africa with an RPG, mortar, or ancient Chinese rocket. Irish troops either need mobile firepower to protect themselves, or they need very long ranged static firepower to protect them - and given that only the 120mm mortars go overseas, and 8km is not long ranged, the mortars have to be mobile. hence the quest for mobility...
But the danes deployed 120mm mortars to Afghanistan without buying any new vehicles to tow them .Ditto the US marine corps, who use very light vehicles. Thats largely because 120mm is not there for mobile warfare, its designed to be fired from static positions.
After all even the british don't have mobile mortars, unless any of those Fv 432 antiques are still around.
The French used to tow theirs with VABs.
The DF should have a fair few spare 120s since the reorgs
Problem being the solid tyres, couldn't be towed above 30mph or the tyres would disintergrate..While off road thats a realistic speed, on roads its a nightmare.
Scorpion turrent on M113 body is nothing new, The Australians used them.
While the primary design behind the M113 is old, thy are still in production with upgrades..by Turkey.. (The country, not the mod)
Ever wonder why they built so many?
because they were a highly adaptable vehicle that often out performed the vehicles meant to replace it.
Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe
I thought the Swiss mounted the earlier model Ruag in the M113, and that the 87 is a similar weapon, maybe they have some surplus M113s that could be re-equipped with the 87?
Recycle the two curraghs SISU's XA-180 APCs fitting them with the RUAG 120mm Mortars. Providing a overseas deployable mobile armored artillery platforms..
Mount the AML20s 20mm to some of the Mowags which then re-classes them as IFVs and one day replace the 1st Armored Cav Sqn Scorpions with Mowag Piranha with 120mm smoothbore guns...
Runs to nearest ditch for cover
British officer: You're seven minutes late, Mr. Collins.
Michael Collins: You've kept us waiting 700 years. You can have your seven minutes.
[As the British flag comes down]
Michael Collins: So that's what all the bother was about.
Recycle the two curraghs SISU's XA-180 APCs fitting them with the RUAG 120mm Mortars. Providing a overseas deployable mobile armored artillery platforms..
Mount the AML20s 20mm to some of the Mowags which then re-classes them as IFVs and one day replace the 1st Armored Cav Sqn Scorpions with Mowag Piranha with 120mm smoothbore guns...
Runs to nearest ditch for cover
There is no need for dedicated mortar carriers. All mortar types in service can be transported in a Mowag with ammo and crew if needed.
The main problem mounting an AML turret on a Mowag is it being a two man turret it would take up to much space if mounted on a Infantry car. A big gun Mowag would be great but it seems that any nation that has done it has had problems with them and no one has tried a 120mm gun. MRV's with long range anti-tank missiles would be the safer option, but what missile would be suitable. Although the Block 1 Javelin can hit out to 4000m its still a medium range system and TOW and HOT replacements haven't been developed yet.
With regards to mounting a panhard turret on anything, people must remember the turret just does not consist of the armoured bit on top, but also about 4 foot of rotating turret below, which includes crew seats, ammo storage and most importantly a pivot point, where all the fallen empty coax shells and biros end up.
Also, the 20mm gun, as discussed elsewhere is a dud.
Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.
The 20mm mounted correctly is a fine weapon
A weapon that needs assistants from gravity to feed it being mounted upside down is lunacy
We just got away with mounting the 30mm at a 45 degree angle , with about ten months R&D from obw
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