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  • Originally posted by TangoSierra View Post
    The page is cringe worthy reading.

    It reads like kingdom protecting propaganda. And another thing; surveillance, target acquisition and recce do NOT equal intelligence. Those four areas produce data and information FOR processing (hopefully) into intelligence. You can't go out and observe intelligence through a thermal imaging suite.

    If the defence forces were serious about ISTAR, they would merge the entire cavalry corps into one unit along with 1 MIC and join it with a dedicated Military Intelligence Company staffed with specialist analysts and a field Signals unit. Then and only then would you have something nearing the required mass, specialist knowledge and technological assets to perform Istar tasks remotely close to NATO level standards. And oh yeah don't forget about an entirely new Mechanised EW company bolted on and an MOU to the 5eyes nations about access to their Intel network. Other wise it's all talk and text in a Walting In house developed Istar doctrinal publication that is used as a door stop after printing.
    Which is of course why the EUBG battlegroup IRCON is all arms.

    The EUBG ISTAR TF has:
    TF HQ, ISTAR Coy, EW Pln & Fd HUMINT Teams

    Tyvärr kan sidan du försökte nå inte hittas. Det kan bero på att sidan är borttagen eller att adressen i webbläsaren är felstavad. Kontrollera gärna stavningen och försök igen.

    Tyvärr kan sidan du försökte nå inte hittas. Det kan bero på att sidan är borttagen eller att adressen i webbläsaren är felstavad. Kontrollera gärna stavningen och försök igen.

    Tyvärr kan sidan du försökte nå inte hittas. Det kan bero på att sidan är borttagen eller att adressen i webbläsaren är felstavad. Kontrollera gärna stavningen och försök igen.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by DeV View Post
      Which is of course why the EUBG battlegroup IRCON is all arms.

      The EUBG ISTAR TF has:
      TF HQ, ISTAR Coy, EW Pln & Fd HUMINT Teams

      Tyvärr kan sidan du försökte nå inte hittas. Det kan bero på att sidan är borttagen eller att adressen i webbläsaren är felstavad. Kontrollera gärna stavningen och försök igen.

      Tyvärr kan sidan du försökte nå inte hittas. Det kan bero på att sidan är borttagen eller att adressen i webbläsaren är felstavad. Kontrollera gärna stavningen och försök igen.

      http://www.forsvarsmakten.se/siteass...r_master-f.pdf
      I’m a bit mystified by the assertion that the intelligence is missing from the DF ISTAR, as its far from the situation. The intelligence gathering systems used by ISTAR company are on a par with those in NATO countries of a comparable size (foxtrack, Orbiter, Sophie, mowag MRV/CRV ands the LTAV STA). A Dev rightly points out the ISTAR task force has field humint teams, one of which is supplied by the defence forces, and the DF has put a lot of effort into developing a joint common operational picture using sitaware software. For those who might want to do a bit of research, its interesting as a tactical intel system it’s the best out there, and at a tactical level at Battlegroup or battalion level the Df have in place for the past year an intelligence network that the us army is only now adopting.

      EW is a task that is given to the swedes in the istar task force, its an area that the DF ignored before 2008, but then so did virtually every other western country, I’d expect to see more effort put into this area over the coming decade. But the JCOP provided by sitaware means that information can be provided by partner units like the Swedish electronic warfare unit attached and the local air picture unit’s giraffe radar, and processed into tactical intelligence by ther TF HQ.

      As for the level of training of the intelligence analysts at istar Taskforce HQ, a significant proportion if not all have been on courses in nato countries
      Last edited by paul g; 25 April 2017, 00:09.

      Comment


      • Please don't fall for the propaganda. It looks great on paper but the reality is that none of the systems you mention have been integrated into a Common Operational Picture. The software you speak of relies on skilled personnel to implement it who are leaving in droves and just because you sent someone on a course does not mean they will have an effect if the function is not resourced. Which it ain't.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by paul g View Post
          I’m a bit mystified by the assertion that the intelligence is missing from the DF ISTAR, as its far from the situation. The intelligence gathering systems used by ISTAR company are on a par with those in NATO countries of a comparable size (foxtrack, Orbiter, Sophie, mowag MRV/CRV ands the LTAV STA). A Dev rightly points out the ISTAR task force has field humint teams, one of which is supplied by the defence forces, and the DF has put a lot of effort into developing a joint common operational picture using sitaware software. For those who might want to do a bit of research, its interesting as a tactical intel system it’s the best out there, and at a tactical level at Battlegroup or battalion level the Df have in place for the past year an intelligence network that the us army is only now adopting.

          EW is a task that is given to the swedes in the istar task force, its an area that the DF ignored before 2008, but then so did virtually every other western country, I’d expect to see more effort put into this area over the coming decade. But the JCOP provided by sitaware means that information can be provided by partner units like the Swedish electronic warfare unit attached and the local air picture unit’s giraffe radar, and processed into tactical intelligence by ther TF HQ.

          As for the level of training of the intelligence analysts at istar Taskforce HQ, a significant proportion if not all have been on courses in nato countries
          Originally posted by TangoSierra View Post
          Please don't fall for the propaganda. It looks great on paper but the reality is that none of the systems you mention have been integrated into a Common Operational Picture. The software you speak of relies on skilled personnel to implement it who are leaving in droves and just because you sent someone on a course does not mean they will have an effect if the function is not resourced. Which it ain't.
          oh the Int Cycle and IPB, such fun

          ISTAR assets (eg the CTR, the sniper, the UAVs, the recce patrol etc) generally collect, it would be up to the HQ and/or Int staff to do the other jobs

          SITAWARE is a brilliant tool, it appears very user friendly and not all the people using it are PDF

          The point we are trying to make is that the Cav Corps needs to be reorganised and requipped:
          - they don't have enough LTAVs, APCs, CRVs or MRVs
          - they don't have a Scorpion replacement (be that one of the above or something new)

          Like the rest of the DF they are suffering personnel retention issues but is there a point recruiting them if you don't have the equipment for them to do the job ?!

          A lot of the current equipment is being paid for by keeping numbers low ..... Unfortunately
          Last edited by DeV; 25 April 2017, 13:29.

          Comment


          • Personnally I would probably reorg Cav as follows:

            Cav Sqns:
            Sqn HQ & HQ Tps - not 100% maybe 2 X APC Comd, 1 X APC Ambulance & 1 X APC Recovery
            Recce Tps - 4 X CRV
            Supp Tps - 4 X MRV

            Armd Cav Sqn:
            See above but Recce Tps to have 4 X MRVs and Supp Tp to have possibly a 90/105mm MOWAG

            Comment




            • The French are getting this which would be potentially good for us

              But I really think we are going the right direction with MRVs and CRVs

              Comment


              • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                https://youtu.be/TjOxF52MiQ0

                The French are getting this which would be potentially good for us

                But I really think we are going the right direction with MRVs and CRVs
                For the traditional old school Cav thinkers it would be a good move, but probably too late as the DF seems committed to Mowag products for a long time to come
                Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                Comment


                • At least see how it works out operationally before considering it and avoid being a guinea pig for a new product.

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                  • Originally posted by danno View Post
                    At least see how it works out operationally before considering it and avoid being a guinea pig for a new product.
                    You'd think we'd have learned that lesson in the past, but hey presto, RG-32M!!!
                    What are you cackling at, fatty? Too much pie, that's your problem.

                    Comment


                    • Did somebody mention RG 32M

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                      • they should get the medical people to categorise the Irish Army's tendency to buy limited edition, goldplated, underresourced kit as an actual disease, so that someone could come up with a drug to cure it...

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                        • Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
                          they should get the medical people to categorise the Irish Army's tendency to buy limited edition, goldplated, underresourced kit as an actual disease, so that someone could come up with a drug to cure it...
                          Ah British military syndrome, BMS...we seem to have contracted it too.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
                            they should get the medical people to categorise the Irish Army's tendency to buy limited edition, goldplated, underresourced kit as an actual disease, so that someone could come up with a drug to cure it...
                            Some things are incureable! Presumably it comes from a lack of actual pointy-stuff use, officers with too much time sitting around in messes fantasising that they are doing good for the DF.

                            Comment


                            • Wait till the French have them and emplace a few guys in a French battalion that uses them and see what they say.

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