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  • There are I think Westernised version of some former Eastern Bloc equipment but you’d looking at geopolitical risks, possible sanctions, spares, support etc

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    • Originally posted by DeV View Post
      There are I think Westernised version of some former Eastern Bloc equipment but you’d looking at geopolitical risks, possible sanctions, spares, support etc
      very true. Has the PDF pursued the idea of purchasing MBT's or will they continue utilizing only recon vehicles for the foreseeable future?

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      • and anyway do we really need MBTs

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        • Originally posted by Robert View Post
          very true. Has the PDF pursued the idea of purchasing MBT's or will they continue utilizing only recon vehicles for the foreseeable future?
          MBTs can’t be used in isolation, they need armoured infantry and SP artillery

          That costs a lot

          There are lots of other reasons why not in this thread

          We retired our last proper tank in the 1970s (which was obsolete at the time)

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          • #839 Which might have had/has the unfortunate(?) result that if it can't be NATO (western) equipment, it can't be nothin' at all?

            Regards other sources, it looks like for some Chinese top-end equipment, that the key components - specifically engines, are sourced in Europe (not just Russia), and/or are Chinese copies... i.e. for tanks, helicopters, small jets. This could make good relations for future parts supply less critical.

            Also, Greece and Cyprus I think are other e.g. western nations with some ex-soviet/Russian equipment.

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            • Originally posted by WhingeNot View Post
              #839 Which might have had/has the unfortunate(?) result that if it can't be NATO (western) equipment, it can't be nothin' at all?

              Regards other sources, it looks like for some Chinese top-end equipment, that the key components - specifically engines, are sourced in Europe (not just Russia), and/or are Chinese copies... i.e. for tanks, helicopters, small jets. This could make good relations for future parts supply less critical.

              Also, Greece and Cyprus I think are other e.g. western nations with some ex-soviet/Russian equipment.
              Standardisation and interoperability are the name of the game

              You can’t just plug and play

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              • Originally posted by apc View Post
                and anyway do we really need MBTs
                Depends on the operational goals of the PDF moving forward I would think. Looking at other neutral countries like Sweden and Switzerland they possess MBT's if we are using them as a measuring stick. That said if the PDF was to make a big purchase I would argue for a purchase of capable fighter jets due to the increasing international risk of terror attacks from the air. I know that the British Air Force is responsible for escorting unwanted planes out of Irish airspace so if anything that's a smarter investment in terms of practicality. But that's a topic for an entirely different thread and I don't want to drive this thread off topic haha.

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                • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                  Standardisation and interoperability are the name of the game

                  You can’t just plug and play
                  Isn't there some eastern bloc equipment that uses NATO standardization? I know that's the case for small arms such as AKM's in terms of ammunition but am unsure about AFVs in terms of parts?

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                  • oh....god.... here we go again..........
                    Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

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                    • Originally posted by Robert View Post
                      Isn't there some eastern bloc equipment that uses NATO standardization? I know that's the case for small arms such as AKM's in terms of ammunition but am unsure about AFVs in terms of parts?
                      We have to be careful with the old designation "eastern bloc", what we are talking about are systems developed from Soviet or Warsaw Pact equipment. These are the items we need to steer well clear of.

                      Today however there are western standards in much of the nations of the former eastern bloc now in the EU. The Holland class OPV were built in Romania, if you by a Finnish AMV then it will most likely now come from Poland. The difference is they are designed and build to western standards.

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                      • Finland took Russian kit because of an international agreement going back to their time in WW2 when they fought Russia. As part of their non-aligned status, they bought and used equipment from both sides, so you had Draken fighters from Sweden serving alongside MiG-21s from Russia. Sweden had Russian BMPs because they got them as a cheap job lot from the close down of the East German army. Most of them are now out of service. These days,a lot of Russian kit is offered to former users of Western kit, because it's a much freer market. The practical difference is standards such as oil grades, calibres, physical connectivity, electronic specifications and a host of other differences that make running Western kit and Russian kit side-by-side hard work.

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                        • At the least, don’t rely on equipment supply from the people you might have to fight. If Ireland is to go for MBTs, let’s face it..the Leopard and it’s likely Franco-German replacement is the European tank. But MBTs don’t strike me as a priority unless we’ve reached a stage of developing a combined arms maneuver force. We need to walk before we can run...light armored vehicles with missiles and guns first, mobile artillery next, tanks when and if there is money in the kitty.
                          But everything should seek to maximize interoperability with European Union militaries.

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                          • Originally posted by expat01 View Post
                            At the least, don’t rely on equipment supply from the people you might have to fight. If Ireland is to go for MBTs, let’s face it..the Leopard and it’s likely Franco-German replacement is the European tank. But MBTs don’t strike me as a priority unless we’ve reached a stage of developing a combined arms maneuver force. We need to walk before we can run...light armored vehicles with missiles and guns first, mobile artillery next, tanks when and if there is money in the kitty.
                            But everything should seek to maximize interoperability with European Union militaries.
                            Where would me keep or run these MTBs

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                            • We already covered this

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                              • Originally posted by sofa View Post
                                Where would me keep or run these MTBs
                                either buy a training area large enough to use them - 20,000 acres + gunnery range - or use someone elses. you need a large training area anyway...

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