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  • We’ve discussed the ORBAT of Cav Sqns previously

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    • Originally posted by DeV View Post
      Could a 90mm MOWAG hold a 4 man DE as well?
      It would appear not (at least not in the Belgian ones)

      https://youtu.be/cWwTVi1OAIY (Featured about the 2 minute mark)


      For that reason, If I was going to put them in a Bde Cav Sqn I’d put them in Supp Tp (not the Recce Tps). IMHO though you then lose some flexibility using it in some other roles.

      If you put them in 1ACS it then means it also of limited flexibility but you could have a Supp Tp of MRVs/APCs (with DE).

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      • What about a 40mm cannon on top of a Mowag instead of a 90mm

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        • Originally posted by ropebag View Post
          If only there were other countries that Ireland had cordial military relationships with that did have such areas, and if only there was some way of moving people from Ireland to those places...

          I think I might look into this further, and I'll do it in two strands - the first is to invent a 'flying machine', perhaps with wings like a bird, and the second strand will be to invent a thing that can float on the sea, that you can steer, and make go to other places that are also on the sea. I think I'll call it (working title for the moment) a boat.
          Its not as if other countries don't do it. The most obvious example would be the UK and BATUS. A more niche one of a small country that literally doesn't have the space to do things is Singapore - The SAF have hired a former NZAF bombing range for training and conduct training exercises for their land forces in Taiwan every year.

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          • Correct. Most of the Singaporian air force is based off the island......artillery of the 105 Light Gun class is designed to be easily transported and it is not beyond the wit of the DF to move it by air or sea to any potential deployment. As field guns go, it does fold down into quite a small package. Effectively, the only real reason not to is political......a 90mm Mowag would be so useful for so many reasons, it's a bit of a joke not to have them by now. As for role and orbat and all that, well, that's Staff Course 101 stuff. Take a leaf out of the Germans' handbook: just take them on strength and let the Brigade Comdr deploy them as he sees fit.

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            • The 105s could do with a relatively inexpensive upgrade in order to be deployed effectively

              There are very few modern 6x6/8x8 APCs mounting a 90mm (or bigger). There could be reasons for and against.

              But if the Scorpions are to be replaced I’d be firmly of the opinion that it must be a MOWAG variant

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              • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                The 105s could do with a relatively inexpensive upgrade in order to be deployed effectively
                What issue with them needs an overseas upgrade??
                An army is power. Its entire purpose is to coerce others. This power can not be used carelessly or recklessly. This power can do great harm. We have seen more suffering than any man should ever see, and if there is going to be an end to it, it must be an end that justifies the cost. Joshua Lawrence Chamberlain

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                • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                  The 105s could do with a relatively inexpensive upgrade in order to be deployed effectively

                  There are very few modern 6x6/8x8 APCs mounting a 90mm (or bigger). There could be reasons for and against.

                  But if the Scorpions are to be replaced I’d be firmly of the opinion that it must be a MOWAG variant
                  Simple reason behind that. Unless you are an actual tank, if you fire a single big loud round against a hard target, revealing your location (as a recce force) to all nearby, modern countermeasures will have you destroyed before you can get the second round off. Wheeled AFV weapons are there to shoot and scoot. Not Stalk and shoot. That's the anti armour detatchment's job.
                  For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.

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                  • Originally posted by X-RayOne View Post
                    What issue with them needs an overseas upgrade??
                    Something like LINAPS, it wouldn’t be essential but offer advantages

                    Originally posted by na grohmit� View Post
                    Simple reason behind that. Unless you are an actual tank, if you fire a single big loud round against a hard target, revealing your location (as a recce force) to all nearby, modern countermeasures will have you destroyed before you can get the second round off. Wheeled AFV weapons are there to shoot and scoot. Not Stalk and shoot. That's the anti armour detatchment's job.
                    Yes and often those 30mm recce vehicles (in conventional warfare at least will be near friendly tanks, obviously we don’t have any).

                    Maybe there is an argument as part of a Scorpion replacement for 1ACS to be equipped with MOWAG MRVs and MOWAGs with a LRATGW (ie longer range than Javelin).

                    However, adding another missile to the inventory????

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                    • We only have 3 missile types in the entire military... whats the big deal?
                      "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
                      "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

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                      • @na gromiti, staying concealed is all very well for recce work but a lot of the current DF work abroad is staying highly visible in white vehicles. With regard to gun versus missile, cost is a major factor and the DoD/DoF is always on permanent overwatch when it comes to DF spending. I'd rather have a 90mm gun on a familiar platform, with a projected service life of thirty years, than a missile system that costs (insert supposed cost here) and has a very finite life, ie, missile time-ex'd after five or ten years. I'd love to see the faces on the DoD people if the Irish started squirting off Javelins like they were going out of fashion, in some dusty place against some toerag who's got a troop of technicals and wants to go head to head. "you spent how much??!!"

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                        • Originally posted by morpheus View Post
                          We only have 3 missile types in the entire military... whats the big deal?
                          So adding a small number of a new type is a huge percentage increase and a high life cycle cost

                          A 90 is also more versatile

                          Originally posted by GoneToTheCanner View Post
                          @na gromiti, staying concealed is all very well for recce work but a lot of the current DF work abroad is staying highly visible in white vehicles. With regard to gun versus missile, cost is a major factor and the DoD/DoF is always on permanent overwatch when it comes to DF spending. I'd rather have a 90mm gun on a familiar platform, with a projected service life of thirty years, than a missile system that costs (insert supposed cost here) and has a very finite life, ie, missile time-ex'd after five or ten years. I'd love to see the faces on the DoD people if the Irish started squirting off Javelins like they were going out of fashion, in some dusty place against some toerag who's got a troop of technicals and wants to go head to head. "you spent how much??!!"
                          +1

                          I was actually thinking longer range than Javelin

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                          • It would appear that an extended range version of Javelin (>4 km) is being worked on (not sure if fielded yet)

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                            • While I'm mightily annoyed at the DF's habit of writing and rewriting doctrine to make all they plan to do reflect the minimum equipment level we think the DoD will permit, MBTs are a bit of a stretch at the moment. Conceptually, not practically - even Singapore has tanks. Asking the DF to incorporate an entirely new doctrine to the cavalry is a generational job.
                              If they are ever contemplated, it has to be a leopard or better. Not a cast-off that's on the replacement track.

                              Fire support for overseas missions does seem a no-brainer though and I really wonder why artillery are not brought to the field. On most of the Irish Army's ops they could stay happily dug in at camp. Whatever about tanks (always nice but the French AMX10RC seemed to hit the spot in Mali) an army that doesn't have artillery and deploy it is not an army, its a gendarmerie. I hate saying that where gun bunnies can hear, but it's true.

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                              • Originally posted by expat01 View Post
                                While I'm mightily annoyed at the DF's habit of writing and rewriting doctrine to make all they plan to do reflect the minimum equipment level we think the DoD will permit, MBTs are a bit of a stretch at the moment. Conceptually, not practically - even Singapore has tanks. Asking the DF to incorporate an entirely new doctrine to the cavalry is a generational job.
                                If they are ever contemplated, it has to be a leopard or better. Not a cast-off that's on the replacement track.

                                Fire support for overseas missions does seem a no-brainer though and I really wonder why artillery are not brought to the field. On most of the Irish Army's ops they could stay happily dug in at camp. Whatever about tanks (always nice but the French AMX10RC seemed to hit the spot in Mali) an army that doesn't have artillery and deploy it is not an army, its a gendarmerie. I hate saying that where gun bunnies can hear, but it's true.
                                Irish doctrine says nothing of the sort

                                We aren’t invading former lands that isn’t to say that patrols fire support available. But remember we are talking UN mandated PSOs. Generally they aren’t engaged in combat ops.

                                The artillery we have doesn’t have precision capabilities and therefore wouldn’t be suitable.

                                A direct fire gun is a much better option.

                                Also remember that the UN would have to agre

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