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  1. #26
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    For aguy who is intersted in Irish military history...you seem to read very little...
    Time for another break I think......

  2. #27
    ldman60119
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    Wow murphy, what a great thought. No content, no support for your comment. 'I'd tink i cans reedes'

    Anyway, do the Scorpions have night vision gear? If they do I am sure that it can be upgraded even further. Also perhaps a GPS system, considering they would have a recon role.
    Last edited by ldman60119; 31st December 2005 at 00:12.

  3. #28
    all i ask is why Gasplug's Avatar
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    Mod: unnecessary comments removed


    i thought it was confirmed some time ago that the scorpions were being scrapped/sold/becoming targets in the glen?? :confused:

  4. #29
    Intelligence Officer The Blue Max's Avatar
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    Well it would be great to see the Scorps serve overseas and this could be a poosibility i presume with the Cavarlys new enhanced Recce Role.Like i said the 76s is viewed internationally as a great support weapen working alongside the likes of Mechanised Infantry (APC Mounted e.g Mowags Units) the Scorps cant be that much over 15/18 years old can they?? and would have prodominatly been used for training so with a new upgrade, they could easily serve for another 10-12 years.
    British officer: You're seven minutes late, Mr. Collins.
    Michael Collins: You've kept us waiting 700 years. You can have your seven minutes.

    [As the British flag comes down]

    Michael Collins: So that's what all the bother was about.

  5. #30
    ldman60119
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    Gasplug, are the Scropions still fully operational?

  6. #31
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    The Irssh army Scorpions haven't and won't serve overseas in their current configuration...and that won't change any time soon....For vehicles of their era they were above average.the only reason they have survived is that the fume extractor problem was solved. The AML 90 is a superior weapons platform...they were never meant to be used as tanks....look at the designation...Tanks are fighting vehicles...scorpions are recce vehicles.

    The last tanks we deployed were comets...three generations behind any current MBT. The current status of The Irish defence forces is as an infantry based force with armored recce elemnets.

    Given your interest in the DF I thought you would have seen this aread whta our capabilities and intentions are. the cavary Corps in the Df are purely intended as recce...and ven that role has been enhanced toward spec ops and not armoured warfare.
    I tend to tire of people equating our armoured capabilities to Armoured fighting units rather than recce roles. We have never had that capability. The original intention for having tanks was to train non mechanised units how to deploy against them...Maybe further reading should be recommended.

    As for Mowags with or without guns..they are battlefield taxis with intent on survivability not as offensive fighting units.Now with all the action you have seen please tell me where the Irish could fit in to any armoured warfare role in their current operational status. We have not or will not in the forseable future have such capabilities...after all our forces are organised to defend against internal agression and provide peace keeping forces...we leave the war stuff up to others.
    Time for another break I think......

  7. #32
    ldman60119
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    I am not fully read up on EVERY aspect of the Irish military. Sorry I don't know everything. I will settle for knowing almost everything. For further reading you might want to take a look at this, you can download it-https://atiam.train.army.mil/soldierPortal/atia/adlsc/view/altfmt/7668-1

    I have been in a Cav/Recon unit. If you are up at the front, you will get shoot at. Military 101. You still need to train how to fight, even if it is only a recon mission
    Last edited by ldman60119; 31st December 2005 at 01:15.

  8. #33
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    I know how to fight....I won't ever be in action..mny time has passed
    Time for another break I think......

  9. #34
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ldman60119
    Wow murphy, what a great thought. No content, no support for your comment. 'I'd tink i cans reedes'

    Anyway, do the Scorpions have night vision gear? If they do I am sure that it can be upgraded even further. Also perhaps a GPS system, considering they would have a recon role.
    Some Irish Scorpion CVRT(2) are fitted with a laser range finder as standard, but most are not. They are fitted with the L23A1 76mm gun.
    As for a GPS system, we have these in Ireland too. I even have one myself. Why some of us even know how to use one.
    I think Garmin have been providing GPS to the DF for many years now. But you can't beat a good map and someone who knows how to use it for when the US decide to switch of the GPS satellite network.

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  11. #35
    Intelligence Officer The Blue Max's Avatar
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    Exactly what the Army should be looking to retaining the Alvis Scorpians CVR-Ts or "Combat Vechicle Recconaissance-Tracked" with upgrade thats still pipeline as previously disscussed would provide the basis for re-engined,better communications fit (up-to minute secure intelligence flow back to HQ),better Thermal imaging equipment,sensors, new laser range finder,new thermal imaging/IRR reducer camouflague cover,Applique Armour.rubber tracks (reducing weight,noise and footprint of vechicle) and it already great support weapon in the shape of the 76mm gun.

    All this to me it would give the Cavarly Corps a great assets in its new enhanced role of Armoured Recce especially in Peace Support Operations (PSO) either with the EU/UNSAS etc.. and it has the spped to keep up with the likes of the Mowag as Murp correctly put it the Troops "Taxi Of BattleField''
    British officer: You're seven minutes late, Mr. Collins.
    Michael Collins: You've kept us waiting 700 years. You can have your seven minutes.

    [As the British flag comes down]

    Michael Collins: So that's what all the bother was about.

  12. #36
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Ah goldie thats why I as cavalry recce sergeant have this little black thing with the screen and numbers fixed to the rail in a nissan....always wondered what it was...I knew I bought it for something...

    Maps ..the army has maps...and here was I buying my own all along....have they got guns too?
    Time for another break I think......

  13. #37
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    This question may already have been answered.....during the 80's the scorpions gained a .50 on the turret,thet seemed to keep these for a few years but I have not seen them fitted for many years..any reason why they were removed.
    Happy new year all

  14. #38
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy
    Maps ..the army has maps...and here was I buying my own all along....have they got guns too?
    No, Its the artillery that has guns...

  15. #39
    Commander-in-Chief futurepilot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spook
    This question may already have been answered.....during the 80's the scorpions gained a .50 on the turret,thet seemed to keep these for a few years but I have not seen them fitted for many years..any reason why they were removed.
    Happy new year all
    According to Karl Martins book, The .50 cal raised the profile of the Scorpian dramatically and so was discontinued.
    Education isn't everything, for a start it isn't an elephant

  16. #40
    Corporal
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    The 25mm armed AML-60 was trialled in the French T-25 turret during 1986. The following year trials were carried out with a 30mm armed Schimitar turret on the same vehicle type.

    Regards

    Måk

  17. #41
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    The Rarden on the scimitar is fed from a three round clip so is totally obselete...as for the french thingy...well the 20mm on the 'new' turrets is a copy of the french 'Defa'and is also obslete...so next option please?
    Time for another break I think......

  18. #42
    CQMS spider's Avatar
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    http://www.bellum.nu/armoury/PWiesel.html

    Would these serve as potential replacements for the Scorpion ?? Small, very light, fast, airportable, various weapon fits, APC versions and very importantly, German so they should'nt break down.

    About 1 million euro each, probably depending on theweapon fit.

    For the light recce role, 20mm cannon and TOW versions ?

  19. #43
    Intelligence Officer The Blue Max's Avatar
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    Personnally I think at the momment there is not a decent replace for the scorps on the market its either going to be to light such as the German Wiesel or slightly to big with the Swedich CV90 class of tracked armoured vechicles. personnally i prefer the CV90 class if they ever replaced the Scorps in 5/10 years time but i still think it would be better investment to upgrade the Scorps to the Scorpian 2000 CVR(T) Standard as this would provide us with a much better armoured recce platform than anything else currently available.
    British officer: You're seven minutes late, Mr. Collins.
    Michael Collins: You've kept us waiting 700 years. You can have your seven minutes.

    [As the British flag comes down]

    Michael Collins: So that's what all the bother was about.

  20. #44
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Blue Max
    Scorps to the Scorpian 2000 CVR(T) Standard as this would provide us with a much better armoured recce platform than anything else currently available.
    Why do you think this?

    And it's SCORPION

  21. #45
    Intelligence Officer The Blue Max's Avatar
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    Im from County Dublin so its what we call it here LOL!! "Scor-pians"

    I think it is a great platform for Armoured Recce as it has the capability to acces all aspects of a modern battlefield as it is tracked it can can cross bogs were Jeeps/LATVs would sink and flaunder it will beable to access areas of the battlefield that wheeled vechicles simple couldnt reach.

    If they were refitted with the new powerpack it could offer a better creep capability (similiar to that of the Mowags) also if was also fitted with new sensor package and Thermal Protective Sheeting and rubber tracks to reduce footprint of the vechicle. It could be a great asset to this newly enhanced recconasaince roles of the Cavarly Corps..
    British officer: You're seven minutes late, Mr. Collins.
    Michael Collins: You've kept us waiting 700 years. You can have your seven minutes.

    [As the British flag comes down]

    Michael Collins: So that's what all the bother was about.

  22. #46
    Major General ODIN's Avatar
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    I have just spent the last half an hour reading through another sites thread (ie protacpx.com) and mentioned there was the offer of 275 Scorpians from Britian in 2004 which was turned down(imagine, every cav sqn with scorpians). Posted yesterday was that the Scorpians are to be rebuilt
    What are you cackling at, fatty? Too much pie, that's your problem.

  23. #47
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    To Blue max..pity you weren't with the Brits in the falklands then,( they could have done with your expertise)..as they were not deployed operationally there...in contradiction to what the DFTC website says..yes they went..but even the bits were afraid they might vanish without trace in the bogs!

    And if they are so brilliant why did they get rid of them ..even after the fume extractor problem was solved..
    Time for another break I think......

  24. #48
    In Arduis Fidelis rod and serpent's Avatar
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    Attached Images Attached Images

  25. #49
    Potential Liability yellowjacket's Avatar
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    as they were not deployed operationally there...in contradiction to what the DFTC website says..yes they went..but even the bits were afraid they might vanish without trace in the bogs!
    Don't go telling that to the Blues & Royals..


    http://www.naval-history.net/F57wireless.htm

    http://www.naval-history.net/F57wireless.htm

    http://www.britains-smallwars.com/Fa...less-Ridge.htm

    http://www.britains-smallwars.com/Fa...rchStanley.htm

    http://www.war-art.com/falklands_war.htm

    .
    .
    .
    With 50,000 men getting killed a week, who's going to miss a pigeon?

    Guns don't kill people, bullets kill people.

  26. #50
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Only used in mopping up ops...Blues and royals would be the first to admit it.....they weren't deployed in their intended role
    In hind sight ..the Band Rs would have been better of on horse back!
    Time for another break I think......

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