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Scorpion replacment?

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  • There not going to be infantry cars when their converted, they will belong to the cav three to cork three to Dublin three the dftc
    The mounting plates for the rws are weapon specific
    They would have upgrade the manual chargers ,charging levers, solonoids and a few other things
    But if the rws was set up for the 20mm the plates, chargers and all the other work could be carried out in the defence forces

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    • So does that mean 9 of the previous infantry APCs are being given yo CAV?
      British officer: You're seven minutes late, Mr. Collins.
      Michael Collins: You've kept us waiting 700 years. You can have your seven minutes.

      [As the British flag comes down]

      Michael Collins: So that's what all the bother was about.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Rhodes View Post
        The 20mm GI 2 would be suitable option for the CRV and its role but for the Infantry cars id go for the 40mm GMG.
        is the 20mm a heavy enough weapon?

        20mm will happily wreck soft vehicles, but what will it do to armoured/protected vehicles? i know 20mm isn't that brilliant against mud walled compounds, and its range isn't exactly spectacular if we're talking about firing on positions with ATGW, recoiless rifles, mortars or the ubiquitous 107mm rocket...

        would the cost of a 20mm system not approach that of a 30/35mm system but with far less capability?

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        • s the 20mm a heavy enough weapon?

          would the cost of a 20mm system not approach that of a 30/35mm system but with far less capability?

          20mm will happily wreck soft vehicles, but what will it do to armoured/protected vehicles? i know 20mm isn't that brilliant against mud walled compounds, and its range isn't exactly spectacular
          Finally !!!!Some one who knows what he is talking about.......

          The capability of the .5 is not that dissimilar to the 20mm, and its a far simpler weapon and the mount needs no modification..and its not unique to the cav.

          The AML 20 turret is a ton of un needed weight, and lets face it if the army wanted a turret they wouldn't be changing out the ones in service!
          Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

          Comment


          • Originally posted by ropebag View Post
            is the 20mm a heavy enough weapon?

            20mm will happily wreck soft vehicles, but what will it do to armoured/protected vehicles? i know 20mm isn't that brilliant against mud walled compounds, and its range isn't exactly spectacular if we're talking about firing on positions with ATGW, recoiless rifles, mortars or the ubiquitous 107mm rocket...

            would the cost of a 20mm system not approach that of a 30/35mm system but with far less capability?
            The 20mm is far superior to the 12.7mm HMG mounted most of the time on the CRV's. The cost would be minimal as they would be reusing the GI 2 gun from the now retired AML 20's.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Rhodes View Post
              The 20mm is far superior to the 12.7mm HMG mounted most of the time on the CRV's. The cost would be minimal as they would be reusing the GI 2 gun from the now retired AML 20's.
              i didn't ask whether it was better than 0.5 HMG - it obviously is - i asked if it was good enough for the role its likely to have to undertake in failed/failing states across sub-Saharan Africa, and worth spending money on given its significant limitations.

              a Hawker Hurricane is a damn sight better fighter than a Sopwith Camel, but i don't see anyone buying any...

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              • Originally posted by ropebag View Post
                i didn't ask whether it was better than 0.5 HMG - it obviously is - i asked if it was good enough for the role its likely to have to undertake in failed/failing states across sub-Saharan Africa, and worth spending money on given its significant limitations.

                a Hawker Hurricane is a damn sight better fighter than a Sopwith Camel, but i don't see anyone buying any...
                If its a hell of a lot better than a 12.7mm HMG then use it, especially as it will cost next to nothing to up-gun. The CRV has already been deployed to Africa with Chad armed with nothing heavier than a 12.7mm HMG/40mm GMG. The French are currently using the same 20mm weapon in CAR, Mali and Lebanon fitted to their VAB APC.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Rhodes View Post
                  If its a hell of a lot better than a 12.7mm HMG then use it, especially as it will cost next to nothing to up-gun. The CRV has already been deployed to Africa with Chad armed with nothing heavier than a 12.7mm HMG/40mm GMG. The French are currently using the same 20mm weapon in CAR, Mali and Lebanon fitted to their VAB APC.
                  Which they had salvaged from the ancient AMX13 VCI.


                  Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

                  Comment


                  • Given that any potential African opposition is likely to have, as a minimum, 12.7 or 14.5 and even 23mm, then I'd look to have 20mm on hand. I wouldn't care if it was recycled French GIAT or ex-Naval Rhinos, as long as it was a shell-firer tied to a modern day/night sight.

                    regards
                    GttC

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                    • ex-Naval Rhinos,
                      not going to ex naval rhinos for use for many a year to come, still the standard secondary and will be retrofitted to new ships from decommissioned vessels when the come on line.

                      Worth bearing in mind the ammo for the RH202s and The G 1 are not interchangeable, as was neither GamBo or Oerlikon 20mm with any other 20mm ammo in service with the DF.

                      Hispanos on Leylands....failure!
                      Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                      Comment


                      • Were the Hispanos not fitted to the Landversks ? Not the Leylands

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                        • Originally posted by B Inman View Post
                          Were the Hispanos not fitted to the Landversks ? Not the Leylands

                          and I even have a photo to prove I'm wrong!
                          Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                          Comment


                          • I read the Scorpion's 76mm gun can be used in the indirect fire mode..

                            I'm presuming but certainly could be wrong but that means something like the principle of how a mortar works?

                            Historically speaking has our own cav or other militarized every used this function?

                            Speaking hypothetically what technology would improve this in direct fire mode? GPS or new FCS?
                            British officer: You're seven minutes late, Mr. Collins.
                            Michael Collins: You've kept us waiting 700 years. You can have your seven minutes.

                            [As the British flag comes down]

                            Michael Collins: So that's what all the bother was about.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by The Blue Max View Post
                              ...Speaking hypothetically what technology would improve this in direct fire mode? GPS or new FCS?
                              i know that you can get guided 76mm ammunition, and i know the L23 gun has a maximum, indirect fire range of around 6000m. comparing it to a mortar is not wide of the mark... my personal knowledge/thing is indirect fire at long range to destroy/degrade the enemys heavy weapons, so i'll concentrate on that and let the donkey wallopers talk about dashing about brassing up the enemy with direct fire...

                              now, the one fly in the ointment is that all the guided ammunition i'm aware of that comes in 76mm is for the 76mm naval gun. the L29 is a low velocity weapon wheres the naval gun is a high velocity weapon - its got lots more propellant, so a Naval 76mm shell isn't going to fit into an L29 breach.

                              i assume therefore that while you could certainly pay an ammunition manufacturer to produce guided (GPS/Laser/IR) ammunition for the L29, its not going to be coming off a big production run and its going to be expensive.

                              an FCS could be the answer, but an FCS can only - particularly with low speed ammunition at extreme range - really adjust the aiming point after the first rounds have been fired. so your first two or three rounds could go anywhere and its only after that that you'd start to get relatively accurate fire. given the political realities involved in PK/PE operations, thats not going to fly within the ROE's.

                              i'm not aware of the L29's indirect fire capability being used in conflict - or, tbh, much in practice.. but its always worth remembering that the Israeli's used MBT's in the 1967 war in the indirect fire mode and still hold the record for the longest tank-tank kill in history. 11km - and they didn't have FCS or GPS, they just had gunnery tables and a map...

                              Comment


                              • Not only would a naval 76mm not fit in the breech of a scorpion, It would not fit in the barrel due to its length(900mm plus projectile)


                                Catch-22 says they have a right to do anything we can't stop them from doing.

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