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  1. #76
    2/Lt Bam Bam's Avatar
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    Maybe they got stuck in the mud
    It is only by contemplation of the incompetent that we can appreciate the difficulties and accomplishments of the competent.

  2. #77
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Sorry Docman. But the man did wonders given he was a lowly lieutenant .I got the name wrong. So aplogies alround.

    Its amazing to see how concepts of operations have developed since the falklands.May be a ltle war is a good thing from time to time....no matter how realistic training may seem ..there is nothing like a shooting match for the paced to be upped.

  3. #78
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Just a thought..at 200,000 euro per upgarde and given that the AmL 60s were alread obselte after the upgrades is it not a waste of time. Or is it a sign of unsureity in the Army ...upgrade because we have then...in fear that if we write them off we may get nothing to replace them..as i said ..just a thought.

  4. #79
    Ex-bagger Big Al's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harmon Rabb
    Just a thought..at 200,000 euro per upgarde and given that the AmL 60s were alread obselte after the upgrades is it not a waste of time. Or is it a sign of unsureity in the Army ...upgrade because we have then...in fear that if we write them off we may get nothing to replace them..as i said ..just a thought.
    This it in a nutshell, the old public service problem, spend the budget this year or they will reduce our budget next year....
    You're even dumber than I tell people

    You might have been infected but you never were a bore

  5. #80
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    'medium' armour

    Re the question of the 'correct' role of CVR(T)s, the British have created Medium Armour Squadrons in three of their armoured regiments. These squadrons are equipped with Scimitars and their main mission is to provide direct fire support for light role infantry.

  6. #81
    Major General ODIN's Avatar
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    so what is your question?
    What are you cackling at, fatty? Too much pie, that's your problem.

  7. #82
    Major General ODIN's Avatar
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    ah my bad....oops
    What are you cackling at, fatty? Too much pie, that's your problem.

  8. #83
    "Nice ass, Samson..." mutter nutter's Avatar
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    Scorpion question

    I was just wondering, did the Army ever find a solution to the problem with the 76mm gun on the Scorpion?
    Dr. Venture: Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery?

    Dr. Venture: Dean, you smell like a whore

  9. #84
    Serf hedgehog's Avatar
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    no,

    now off to bed with you
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere***
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

  10. #85
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Problem? What Problem?

  11. #86
    Sergeant Major B Inman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goldie fish View Post
    Problem? What Problem?
    At one time there was a problem with fumes in the turret when the 76mm was fired..

    It was a big problem for our neighbours on the other island and received coverage in the Defence media including Janes Defence weekly.

  12. #87
    wanabe womble's Avatar
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    what? does it not go bang when you want it to no? is that why they were never deployed abroad?
    courage, endurance, mateship and sacrifice

  13. #88
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    I assume the question relates to the fume extractor. And the answer is yes.

  14. #89
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Yes they did..hence they are still in service.
    Time for another break I think......

  15. #90
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    CBRN seal?

    Can the Irish Scorpions be CBRN-sealed? I think that was part of the problem in the British Army: they couldn't extract the gun fumes if they were in a CBRN closed down environment. That was one of the reasons they replaced the Scorpion's turret with 30mm-equipped turrets from the unsatisfactory Fox armoured cars, which gave them the Sabre, used a recce platoon vehicle in Armoured and Mechanised Infantry battalions. (Similar but not the same as the Scimitars used in Armoured Reconnaissance Regiments.)

  16. #91
    "Nice ass, Samson..." mutter nutter's Avatar
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    Thank you gentlemen.
    Dr. Venture: Why is it every time I need to get somewhere, we get waylaid by jackassery?

    Dr. Venture: Dean, you smell like a whore

  17. #92
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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  18. #93
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    Fantasy?

    From the minutes of a meeting held recently in DFHQ


    "…Item 7 on the agenda was the proposal to upgrade the Scorpions, based on the Scorpion 2000 Peacekeeper package offered by Repaircraft Plc. The proposal from the Director of Cavalry included a number of options, including
    (a) a limited upgrade to existing vehicles, mainly to improve safety and reduce costs;
    (b) the full upgrade, which would also include improvements to armour and weapons;
    (c) the full upgrade to existing vehicles, together with the acquisition of a number of extra vehicles, including some modernised Spartan APCs, to complement and support the Scorpions and provide a realistic light armoured cavalry force.

    It was noted that the funding requirements for this proposal were not likely to be problematic, in the context of overall DF capital expenditure. It was agreed that the vehicles in DF service were in need of modernisation and upgrading in a number of areas. However, the question was raised as to whether or not the DF should continue to operate tracked vehicles at all, given all the logistical, operational and cost difficulties posed by such vehicles. The likely use of tracked vehicles by the DF in anything other than a training role was questioned. Compatibility with the Piranha and LTAV was also raised as an issue.

    In view of the differences of opinion and uncertainty as to future policy re tracked vehicles, the CoS thanked the Director of Cavalry for his well presented and researched proposal, but said the issue clearly required further consideration.

    Conclusion: decision deferred.


    The next item on the agenda was the wearing of Dutch para wings…… "

  19. #94
    Closed Account Goldie fish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post


    1 Auxiliary Power Unit / Secondary Generator
    2 Night Vision Commanders / Gunners Sights
    3 Heavy Duty Air Conditioning
    4 Turret Fume Extractor
    5 Improved Engine Cooling
    6 Brushless Heavy Duty Generator / Regulator
    7 Modern Electrical System (DIP-ES)
    8 Automatic Fire Suppression System
    9 Explosion Suppressant Fuel Cell
    10 High Speed Diesel Engine
    11 35mm / 90mm Main Gun
    12 Laser Rangefinder
    13 Drivers Periscope - Day / Night
    14 External Pintle Mounted 7.62mm / 0.50" HMG / 40mm AGL
    15 Larger / Additional Hull Storage Bins
    16 Uprated Suspension
    17 Improved Track
    18 Appliqué Armour and Spall Liners
    19 Turret Power Traverse and Elevation
    20 Radio and Intercom
    21 Nuclear / Biological / Chemical Pack
    22 Computerised Fire Control and Navigation Systems
    23 Laser Attack Countermeasures
    24 Any special equipment or modification required by Users

    (because it took ages to open for me)#

    The items in Italics would be what I'd consider a requirement. The other features would add unnecessary weight to what is intended as a light recce vehicle.
    Pintle mounted weapons are pointless when you have a perfectly good coax. The notion of using a pintle mounted weapon for AAA is merely a morale booster.
    When you don't have a perfectly good coax, you need an even better reverse gear.

  20. #95
    CQMS warthog's Avatar
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    ditch the pintle mounted gpmg and put a 40mm automatic grenade launcher on there,the rangers already have them so it's not beyond imagination and would be a very usable bit of kit

  21. #96
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    Jordanian Scorpion upgrade - note the ATGMs



    details at http://www.kaddb.com/static/project9.shtm

  22. #97
    Captain Jetjock's Avatar
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    Is that a Russian upgrade? The ATGM are Kornets.


  23. #98
    Major General ODIN's Avatar
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    Would it be an option for the vehicles we have??
    What are you cackling at, fatty? Too much pie, that's your problem.

  24. #99
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    Hi there
    The British found a need in Bosnia for 76mm guntanks as the 30mm was inefficient at bunker-busting, ie, Serbian concrete emplacements withstood the 3cm rounds and they had to use ATGWs to be certain of "opening" the bunkers. Which earned them the ire of Army bean-counters....
    regards
    GttC

  25. #100
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    14 External Pintle Mounted 7.62mm / 0.50" HMG / 40mm AGL
    tried but it raised the p-rofile of the crew and made them bullet magnets.

    The brits have just trialled a new turret for the Warrior using a Rheiemetall gun in place of the Rarden.

    Good thing about it is it requires no hull modification.

    As regard bunker busting you'd think the brits would have learned from the falklands where they used MILAN or CG 84mm to do the job without having to revert to the scorpiion although they were used as well..

    the rebuild of the scoprpion with a 90mm gun proves the point that there is a definete role althhough there is a major refit required engine wise before the 90mm turret could be used to equate the power lost by adding the heavier turret..
    Time for another break I think......

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