Originally posted by Tempest
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L.E. James Joyce P62
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Originally posted by Tempest View PostAfter the next hull, does anyone see any merit in going second hand and making a massive leap in capability and looking at 1 or 2 used frigates for about the same money? No EU fundinfunding to help, of course, and much higher running costs, but getting a serious building block. Worth it, or over-kill? And why?Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe
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Originally posted by Tempest View PostAfter the next hull, does anyone see any merit in going second hand and making a massive leap in capability and looking at 1 or 2 used frigates for about the same money? No EU fundinfunding to help, of course, and much higher running costs, but getting a serious building block. Worth it, or over-kill? And why?
Sorry to say but see no merit in this for much same reason that Cav dont need MBTs.
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Originally posted by danno View PostSorry to say but see no merit in this for much same reason that Cav dont need MBTs.
Bear in mind the UKRN are building OPVs to reduce their dependency on frigates.
What could a frigate do in the current environment that a specificallydesigned OPV couldn't?
Again bear in mind most navies are screaming to get purpose designed OPVs as opposed to having to use more expensive frigates to carry out taskings more suited to OPVs.Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe
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Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post...current...
its a familiar story - how many on this board would, in 1980, have predicted that in 2014 Irish troops would have spent 10 years in Afghanistan as part of a NATO force, or that a joint Irish/UK team would be training the Malian Army, or that the Soviet Union would have disappeared only to re-emerge in the shape of Russia and park its tanks on half of Ukraine?
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his is the critical word. frigates/other high-end stuff have no place in current Irish defence and foreign policy, but navies aren't bought for what you need this week, they are bought for 30/35 years, and they have to be able to provide as much relevent service 3 weeks before they get laid up as they do 3 weeks after they enter service.
Frigates carry out some very specific rules such as anti submarine and anti air ops,, none of which we have a requirement for other than what the Naval SErvice currently provide.
1x Frigate would possibly exhaust the NS budget for running costs for a year and suck in as many people to crew it as we have at sean between the P50s and P60. In the current environment of lean manning and multitask OPVs lets just say its a pipe dream.
The NS have far more short term requirements to be funded and given how tight funding is, lets just say its never going to be entertained as an option.Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe
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Originally posted by hptmurphy View PostAh yes but we need the vessels for today..now...
Frigates carry out some very specific rules such as anti submarine and anti air ops,, none of which we have a requirement for other than what the Naval SErvice currently provide.
1x Frigate would possibly exhaust the NS budget for running costs for a year and suck in as many people to crew it as we have at sean between the P50s and P60. In the current environment of lean manning and multitask OPVs lets just say its a pipe dream.
The NS have far more short term requirements to be funded and given how tight funding is, lets just say its never going to be entertained as an option.
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It is far easier to adapt an offshore patrol vessel to do a Frigate task, when required than to have a frigate do an OPV task. Try to imagine, for example, a type 23 Frigate being involved in Salmon Patrols in Kenmare bay.
Its much easier you'll find to modify an OPV to do ASW.For now, everything hangs on implementation of the CoDF report.
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Originally posted by na grohmití View PostIt is far easier to adapt an offshore patrol vessel to do a Frigate task, when required than to have a frigate do an OPV task. Try to imagine, for example, a type 23 Frigate being involved in Salmon Patrols in Kenmare bay.
Its much easier you'll find to modify an OPV to do ASW.
they are superb boats for the tasks allotted to them today - no question - but if its decided in 15 years that they need an ASW or Mine clearance suite, a point defence SAM system or an embarked helicopter, then where would they go?
would the SB class being stretched out to 3000 tons - corvette size - but fitted with OPV suite for current operations, really have cost that much more or imposed any greater crewing/training/peerformance burden on the NS?
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Originally posted by ropebag View Posti wouldn't disagree with you - but modifying needs space, and despite (as GF never used to tire of saying) steel being cheap and air being free, the Beckett class don't appear to have much in the way of growth room.
they are superb boats for the tasks allotted to them today - no question - but if its decided in 15 years that they need an ASW or Mine clearance suite, a point defence SAM system or an embarked helicopter, then where would they go?
would the SB class being stretched out to 3000 tons - corvette size - but fitted with OPV suite for current operations, really have cost that much more or imposed any greater crewing/training/peerformance burden on the NS?
But considering you could pretty much get another P60 (or a load of Mowags or LTAVs) for the cost of CIWS & radar, or sonar array... short of an economic miracle, it's difficult to see how it could ever happen.
If the EPV ever happens, perhaps in stretched P60 form - that's pretty much what you're talking about. But again, the expense of upgrading it to anything like a frigate is eye watering.Last edited by pym; 2 December 2014, 23:33.
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Originally posted by ropebag View Postwould the SB class being stretched out to 3000 tons - corvette size - but fitted with OPV suite for current operations, really have cost that much more or imposed any greater crewing/training/peerformance burden on the NS?
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i wouldn't disagree with you - but modifying needs space, and despite (as GF never used to tire of saying) steel being cheap and air being free, the Beckett class don't appear to have much in the way of growth room.
I reckon one could fit a quality radar, passive countermeasures, CIWS, sonar array & additional EO sensors to the P60's.
Probably could witha little reworking and rewiring.
but if its decided in 15 years that they need an ASW or Mine clearance suite, a point defence SAM system or an embarked helicopter, then where would they go?
they are superb boats for the tasks allotted to them todayCovid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe
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Originally posted by DeV View PostWell the built cost of the EPV was budgeted to be around €100 million (for 1), ie around the same as the 2 new OPVs
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