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Large-Scale Russian Air Activity in Europe

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  • #31
    Originally posted by Laners View Post
    So we can see them pesky Rooskies coming but do nothing to stop them .
    I guess that's the price to pay for being "non-aligned"... everytime they approach North American airspace, they are met by at least a pair of fighters.

    And I think the title is misleading; there is russian air activity around Europe. I don't think they entered anyone's airspace, except maybe Ireland's.
    "On the plains of hesitation, bleach the bones of countless millions, who on the very dawn of victory, laid down to rest, and in resting died.

    Never give up!!"

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    • #32
      So what would NATO's response be if the Russians came trough the Irish back door .
      Don't spit in my Bouillabaisse .

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Laners View Post
        So what would NATO's response be if the Russians came trough the Irish back door .
        Contain them in Ireland ?? Seriously, I don't know... I am not a NATO planner.
        "On the plains of hesitation, bleach the bones of countless millions, who on the very dawn of victory, laid down to rest, and in resting died.

        Never give up!!"

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Laners View Post
          So what would NATO's response be if the Russians came trough the Irish back door .
          Well that's something I'd love to know - a couple of Bears fly round our west coast & then do one of their simulated missile attack runs against say, Liverpool and then turn and head home - all safely within Irish airspace.

          Can already see the UK tabloid headlines...
          Last edited by pym; 1 November 2014, 19:12.

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          • #35
            Great intercept training for NATO aircrews all the same.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by pym View Post
              Well that's something I'd love to know - a couple of Bears fly round our west coast & then do one of their simulated missile attack runs against say, Liverpool and then turn and head home - all safely within Irish airspace.

              Can already see the UK tabloid headlines...
              Well this is were i was heading with this . Would our NATO neighbour ignore our so called neutrality to protect themselves .
              Don't spit in my Bouillabaisse .

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Laners View Post
                Well this is were i was heading with this . Would our NATO neighbour ignore our so called neutrality to protect themselves .
                1. We would not be in a position to stop them
                2. The Russians would not have an issue with ignoring it, and we could not stop them either
                What are you cackling at, fatty? Too much pie, that's your problem.

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                • #38
                  Wonder if the Russian sorties are a response to NATO cranking up aircraft numbers and activity in Eastern Europe following the Crimean walkover.I understood the RAF have some AWACs in any event.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Laners View Post
                    Well this is were i was heading with this . Would our NATO neighbour ignore our so called neutrality to protect themselves .
                    NATO, or individual NATO members, would certainly look to establish some form of agreement with the Irish Government on the issue - but no, the UK government is not going to accept the loss of its western ports as an acceptable side effect of the Irish Government deciding it doesn't want NATO fighters/AWACS/Tankers in its airspace.

                    the UK would not infringe Irish airspace without permission in the case of these Sovie... i mean Russian, exercises - the UK Government would just leak the details to the media and watch the Irish media go utterly mental at the Irish Government for allowing Russian nuclear strike bombers to practice target runs on Irelands largest trading partner in its airspace.

                    of course if we thought they were going to shoot, then the rules would change. worth noting of course that the rules defining neutrality require a neutral state to not allow beligerant nations to fight on their land, sea or airspace - and 'not allow' doesn't mean a stiff letter of protest to an embassy or the UN, it means you are required to maintain, and use, such force as needed to keep others from using or transiting your soveriegn territory. if you don't, then you ain't neutral, and the rules protecting a neutral state don't apply to you.

                    a friendly, or at least non-hostile, Ireland is fundamental to UK national security. any UK government is going to work hard to achieve good relations with Ireland, but if its vital national interests are being attacked through Irish air/seaspace, then its patience will be finite.

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                    • #40
                      Part of Ireland's role in the Cold War was spelled out in UK civil defence planning documents - if it seemed like things were going to go from cold to hot, we were going to turn off the lights & weather forecasts would cease - that was agreed policy.

                      There were other things - comms links with the UK nuclear monitoring organisation etc.

                      So it doesn't seem a stretch to think there was an unwritten acknowledgement that the RAF/USAF would be given free rein of Irish airspace, in order to protect their bases in the UK. If we didn't placate them, the alternative would have been a very quick seizure of coastal ports & airports.

                      But in peacetime, if a couple of Bears played the game mentioned above - whatever happened, it would be worth getting popcorn for the aftermath.

                      That being said, there was an almost total lack of public debate on the strategic importance of this island during the Cold War, so I don't think Bears arsing around will lead to any significant changes.

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                      • #41
                        The Russian Armed Forces seem to be getting very confident again. Between all these probing flights into NATO airspace, taking Crimea without a shot and sailing a submarine up the river to Stockholm before vanishing without a trace, I hope Europeans start reconsidering their long neglected defence budgets.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by pym View Post
                          ...So it doesn't seem a stretch to think there was an unwritten acknowledgement that the RAF/USAF would be given free rein of Irish airspace, in order to protect their bases in the UK. If we didn't placate them, the alternative would have been a very quick seizure of coastal ports & airports....
                          oh absolutely - i don't doubt that in the event of this all getting unpleasantly serious the two states, seeing their best interests intertwined, would be as thick as theives over the whole issue.

                          for me the lack of public debate/acknowledgement, and the difference between the public statements and private actions of the government and body politic is the most frustrating thing...

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by ropebag View Post
                            for me the lack of public debate/acknowledgement, and the difference between the public statements and private actions of the government and body politic is the most frustrating thing...

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                            • #44
                              That page should be an awful lot longer

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Laners View Post
                                Well this is were i was heading with this . Would our NATO neighbour ignore our so called neutrality to protect themselves .


                                Hopfully for our own sake.

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