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  1. #1
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    AC fighter aircraft

    Interesting timing from the Russians, they're at it again:

    BBC defence correspondent Jonathan Beale said the Russian planes - two Tu-95 Bear H bombers - came within 25 miles of the UK.

    They travelled from the north, past the west coast of Ireland and to the English Channel before turning and going back the way they had come, he said.

    He said the bombers did not file a flight plan, did not have their transponders switched on and "weren't talking to air traffic control".
    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-31049952

    Would love the government to publicly acknowledge it and the possible implications.

    Filed under MOU points: Improving strategic surveillence & situational awareness/Capability developments

  2. #2
    Commander in Chief RoyalGreenJacket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pym View Post
    Interesting timing from the Russians, they're at it again:



    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-31049952

    Would love the government to publicly acknowledge it and the possible implications.

    Filed under MOU points: Improving strategic surveillence & situational awareness/Capability developments
    how close did they come to Irish mainland before they got close to mainland UK?

    might be nice to have a few Typhoons on QRA in Shannon now that we're all chums now
    RGJ

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  4. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
    how close did they come to Irish mainland before they got close to mainland UK?

    might be nice to have a few Typhoons on QRA in Shannon now that we're all chums now
    Not disclosed, just like the last time - but if they didn't go through Irish airspace, then they went through Shanwick OCA - either of which should be a concern for us.

    Don't think Typhoons on Shannon QRA are going to happen any time soon, but plenty of other things could - improved primary radar/rapid info sharing/rapid process for allowing intercepts by the RAF if the Russians act up/free top up of fuel in Shannon if needed, etc

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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
    how close did they come to Irish mainland before they got close to mainland UK?

    might be nice to have a few Typhoons on QRA in Shannon now that we're all chums now
    The crusties are mad about US troops being transported through, could you imagine what they'd be like if there was an actual "imperialist baby killing brit war machine (c)" in the country?

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  8. #5
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    unlikely they flew within the 12 mile limit, previous experience would suggest they probably floated down around 25 - 50 miles off shore. legal, but not overly friendly. they eventually turned around south of Bournemouth.

    the fact that the Litvinyenko Inquest happens to be hearing evidence that the Sovi - sorry, Russian state was responsible for his murder is, of course, entirely coincidental...

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    Of course, it's reassuring to know that Russia has the power of veto over the deployment of Irish military abroad...
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    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
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    Not exactly thrilled to hear Ireland referred to as an 'Area of Interest' for UK Defence in the Independent today........

    I'm sure its just a buzz phrase with no further implications but can't help but be reminded of the phrase 'Sphere of influence'
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    Quote Originally Posted by Independent.ie

    The Russian Tu-95 'Bear' bomber planes travelled from the north, past the west coast of Ireland and to the English Channel before turning and going back the same way.

    Britain scrambled its fighter jets in response - as Ireland is considered to be within its 'area of interest' for defence.

    The British jets were deployed when long-range radar detected the Russian planes approach.

    An aviation source told the Daily Telegraph that the planes were flying without their transponders on - meaning they were invisible to any commercial aircraft flying into Ireland at the time.

    It is understood that the British military did not inform the Irish civil aviation authority of the incident.

    British Typhoon fighter jets escorted the Russian planes from a distance of about 1,000ft for around half an hour, until they left were a safe distance away.

    At no point did the planes enter British airspace.

    An RAF spokesperson said:

    “Thanks to our integration with air defence systems across NATO, we were able to begin mission planning early and therefore were ready to act in good time.

    "Once ordered to by the NATO Combined Air Operations Centre in Germany, Typhoon Quick Reaction Alert fighters were scrambled from RAF Lossiemouth to intercept and identify the aircraft. Integration with our colleagues in the Royal Navy provided additional surveillance coverage and added value to the mission.

    “Yesterday’s mission lasted for over 12 hours; the operations room was both calm and focussed. We constantly train for these scenarios so that we are well rehearsed and ready to maintain the integrity of our airspace.”

    Britain has summoned its Russian ambassador to explain the incident.

    A spokesman for the Foreign Office said: "Russian aircraft manoeuvres yesterday are part of an increasing pattern of out of area operations by Russian aircraft. While the Russian planes did not enter sovereign UK airspace and were escorted by RAF Typhoons throughout the time they were in the UK area of interest, the Russian planes caused disruption to civil aviation.

    "That is why we summoned the Russian Ambassador today to account for the incident.”

    Military experts told the paper the manoeuvre could have been political posturing - or an attempt to gauge British military response times.

    Online Editors
    I'd be much more annoyed that the Russians are using us as a sort of side door. I think we should be summoning the Russian representative in Ireland and asking similar questions. This stands to get very out of hand especially with the amount of civilian air traffic that passes our west coast on a daily basis.
    What are you cackling at, fatty? Too much pie, that's your problem.

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  16. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by HavocIRL View Post
    Not exactly thrilled to hear Ireland referred to as an 'Area of Interest' for UK Defence in the Independent today........

    I'm sure its just a buzz phrase with no further implications but can't help but be reminded of the phrase 'Sphere of influence'
    I think if we could take care of the Russians ourselves - fly up, give them a wave - the Brits would be glad to leave it to us.

    Knowing that we can't though, we become an area of interest by default. An open back door.

  17. #10
    Non Temetis Messor The real Jack's Avatar
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    So to summarize a plane flew in international airspace and did nothing wrong - you'd think that these flights are encouraged by Nato/Non Nato in order to justify enormously expensive air forces....
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  19. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by The real Jack View Post
    So to summarize a plane flew in international airspace and did nothing wrong - you'd think that these flights are encouraged by Nato/Non Nato in order to justify enormously expensive air forces....
    Two military planes flew in international airspace with their transponders turned off so the relevant civilian air traffic control could not monitor them and their safe positioning in relation to other air traffic in the area, thereby posing at best a major headache, at worst a major safety hazard.

    Think it through before posting.
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

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  21. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by The real Jack View Post
    So to summarize a plane flew in international airspace and did nothing wrong - you'd think that these flights are encouraged by Nato/Non Nato in order to justify enormously expensive air forces....
    on the contrary, an aircraft flying in congested airspace with no transponder, and no notification to other airspace users is incredibly dangerous. it was tracked and followed in order to broadcast its position to nearby aircraft so as to avoid the euphamistic term 'confliction'.

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  23. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ODIN View Post
    I'd be much more annoyed that the Russians are using us as a sort of side door. I think we should be summoning the Russian representative in Ireland and asking similar questions. This stands to get very out of hand especially with the amount of civilian air traffic that passes our west coast on a daily basis
    Was just thinking that myself. Article mentioned that the fighters had turned off their transponders - so civvy flights would not have been able to pick them up
    The risk of a mid air collision in such cases - especially with fighters capable of Mach 2 type speeds - is very real
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  24. #14
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    No transponder doesn't mean radar can't pick them up

  25. #15
    Non Temetis Messor The real Jack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flamingo View Post
    Two military planes flew in international airspace with their transponders turned off so the relevant civilian air traffic control could not monitor them and their safe positioning in relation to other air traffic in the area, thereby posing at best a major headache, at worst a major safety hazard.

    Think it through before posting.
    Quote Originally Posted by ropebag View Post
    on the contrary, an aircraft flying in congested airspace with no transponder, and no notification to other airspace users is incredibly dangerous. it was tracked and followed in order to broadcast its position to nearby aircraft so as to avoid the euphamistic term 'confliction'.
    But the Tu-95s in question have radar of their own so would obviously do their best to avoid 'confliction' - the ruskies aren't going crash into a plane full of white people crossing the Atlantic. Did the scrambled Typhoons have their transponders on?

    Quote Originally Posted by Truck Driver View Post
    Was just thinking that myself. Article mentioned that the fighters had turned off their transponders - so civvy flights would not have been able to pick them up
    The risk of a mid air collision in such cases - especially with fighters capable of Mach 2 type speeds - is very real
    Tu-95s aren't fighters and aren't capable of anything near mach 2....
    Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

  26. #16
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    Please tell me our radars are able to pick them up and track them.

  27. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Truck Driver View Post
    Was just thinking that myself. Article mentioned that the fighters had turned off their transponders - so civvy flights would not have been able to pick them up
    The risk of a mid air collision in such cases - especially with fighters capable of Mach 2 type speeds - is very real
    i think it means - its badly written - that the BEAR's had their transponders off, not the Typhoons.

  28. #18
    Space Lord of Terra morpheus's Avatar
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    radar can pick them up but has no idea who they are and cant assign a squawk to them.

    they are unidentified blips travelling through conjested airspace with no designation.

    try and control transatlantic flights at varying heights travelling in and out of your airspace with two russian bears hammerring transversely through it without even answering to civilian controllers.

    theyve almost caused 2 air crashes in scandinavian countries already.

    a quote from the interweb:

    A transponder (short-for transmitter-responder[1] and sometimes abbreviated to XPDR,[2] XPNDR,[3] TPDR[4] or TP[5]) is an electronic device that produces a response when it receives a radio-frequency interrogation. Aircraft have transponders to assist in identifying them on air traffic control radar; and collision avoidance systems have been developed to use transponder transmissions as a means of detecting aircraft at risk of colliding with each other.[6][7]
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  30. #19
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    They were just saying hello.


  31. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by sofa View Post
    Please tell me our radars are able to pick them up and track them.
    MOD: Information regarding specific amounts of DF equipment will NOT be given out by forum members.No debate.
    Last edited by apod; 31st January 2015 at 08:30. Reason: OPSEC information disclosed.

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  33. #21
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    MOD: Post edited.
    Last edited by apod; 31st January 2015 at 08:32. Reason: To remove a quote from a previously edited post.

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  35. #22
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    The Irish Aviation Authority has confirmed two Russian military aircraft, shadowed by a number of British fighter jets, flew through Irish controlled airspace off the west coast on Wednesday.

    The Russian Bear military aircraft did not enter Irish sovereign airspace and there was no risk to commercial aircraft operating in the area at the time....

    In a statement the Department of Defence said non-controlled and non-notified flight activity by Russian aircraft is not acceptable.
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0130/676779-airspace/

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  37. #23
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    Strange to see the DoD getting in on the act.

  38. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyalGreenJacket View Post
    how close did they come to Irish mainland before they got close to mainland UK?

    might be nice to have a few Typhoons on QRA in Shannon now that we're all chums now
    Would having RAF Aircraft on Irish Soil mean Ireland was then a member of Nato by Association.

    What If The DF(IAC) Leased 8 Eurofighter Typhoon's 6 single seat versions 2 twin seat versions and the RAF Based the same amount at Aldergrove. ? (But there's probably more chance of Geomagnetic reversal to happen in the next ten years than that happening)

  39. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevo768 View Post
    Would having RAF Aircraft on Irish Soil mean Ireland was then a member of Nato by Association.

    What If The DF(IAC) Leased 8 Eurofighter Typhoon's 6 single seat versions 2 twin seat versions and the RAF Based the same amount at Aldergrove. ? (But there's probably more chance of Geomagnetic reversal to happen in the next ten years than that happening)
    Well cost for one, sadly. But we are a NATO member by association with the PfP, surely?
    I knew a simple soldier boy.....
    Who grinned at life in empty joy,
    Slept soundly through the lonesome dark,
    And whistled early with the lark.

    In winter trenches, cowed and glum,
    With crumps and lice and lack of rum,
    He put a bullet through his brain.
    And no one spoke of him again.

    You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
    Who cheer when soldier lads march by,
    Sneak home and pray you'll never know
    The hell where youth and laughter go.

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