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  • Sorry for the typo that should have read "Send pilots to RAF training centre"

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    • The fact is the reason ......the DF is so small, doesn't have enough of the good equipment that it does have, doesn't have any equipment that it should have, other ranks are low paid , etc etc..... Is cost and will !

      We spend little on defence because the State priorities Health, Social Protection and Education. We spend 82% of the budget on them. Realistically, if Defence wants a 10% increase in budget (and it can't be saved from elsewhere in the DF budget) that's where it comes from.

      The people want a "neutral" country (that has been shown in EU votes), the Government want to prioritise what wins votes and we can't afford it!

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      • This suggestion has great merit especially Daly and Wallace blowing up in a fit of rage but the problems are that it'll still be massively expensive, the UK are having enough budget difficulties without subsidising our training and equipment and it'd still require massive investment in an Irish air base. Also its not good enough just training pilots. We'd have to train ground crew and the other specialities too. Effectively this would just turn the Air Corps into an element of the RAF. Also the Air Corps would be stuck with whatever the aircraft the RAF deemed suitable for their needs, not ours so even if the idea did get off the ground we still mightn't be getting what we need. Finally what happens when the RAF go to war again? Do they just take back the aircraft they so generously loaned us, leaving us even more defenceless at a time when defence would be needed by virtue of our close association with the RAF

        Training with the RAF might be a runner but if we're going to get serious about air defence then we really need to be able to stand on our own two feet and not relying on others
        There is no problem that cannot be fixed with high explosive.

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        • There's nothing preventing the RAF from basing fighters in Norn Iron, negating the need to have a base in the Republic. i'll bet you that there is a Govt level agreement to allow transit of RAF combat aircraft thru our airspace if they (the Irish Govt) feel the need to allow it. It's probably happened before, anyway.

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          • Yes. During WW2. The Donegal corridor.

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            • Originally posted by expat01 View Post
              Yes. During WW2. The Donegal corridor.
              Ah yes the corridor of neutrality
              Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

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              • Operational overflights were officially accepted during the Troubles too, Haughey confirmed it at the time - it was reported in the press.

                If low & slow British helicopters over the state were palatable then, I don't think anyone serious is going to complain about Typhoons on an operational tasking at 35kft now.

                On a related tangent - were Bear incursions into Irish airspace reported at all, during the Cold War?

                I'll repeat what I said again - get the infrastructure on the ground up to a reasonable level first. A couple of primary radar heads on mountain tops in Kerry/Donegal would stop the RAF E3's having to burn so much fuel
                Last edited by pym; 26 February 2015, 19:54.

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                • Originally posted by pym View Post
                  I'll repeat what I said again - get the infrastructure on the ground up to a reasonable level first. A couple of primary radar heads on mountain tops in Kerry/Donegal would stop the RAF E3's having to burn so much fuel
                  Not a bad idea in itself. What kind of price bracket would such radar equipment fall into?
                  Would it be operated by the Air Corps? ...by civilian aurhorities? ...or be an extension of the UK military radar system?
                  IRISH AIR CORPS - Serving the Nation.

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                  • So, after all the discussion here regarding fighter aircraft, it would seem that we are left with three options ?

                    1 - Lease (new) Gripens
                    2 - Purchase (s/h) F-16's
                    3 - Maintain the status-quo (i.e. PC-9's only)
                    IRISH AIR CORPS - Serving the Nation.

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                    • Interesting fact re the one Vs two engine argument. There has never been a Gripen lost due to engine failure. In front line service since 1997.

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                      • Originally posted by Silver View Post
                        Not a bad idea in itself. What kind of price bracket would such radar equipment fall into?
                        Would it be operated by the Air Corps? ...by civilian aurhorities? ...or be an extension of the UK military radar system?
                        the US supplied the Pakistanis with half a dozen AN/TPS77 mobile radars for $90m in about 2005 - two trucks and six operators each, 200+miles range, 100,000ft+ ceiling - if appropriate they can be used as fixed remote radar heads without a permanent crew, and their 'feed' goes wherever, and to whoever, you like.

                        who runs it is fairly irrelevent in the grans scheme of things, but as the AC have bog all experience of running an AD network it may as well be left in the hands of civvy ATC and the Dept of Transport with a feed going to the UK.

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                        • Originally posted by Silver View Post
                          So, after all the discussion here regarding fighter aircraft, it would seem that we are left with three options ?

                          1 - Lease (new) Gripens
                          2 - Purchase (s/h) F-16's
                          3 - Maintain the status-quo (i.e. PC-9's only)

                          [1] lease to buy maybe..
                          [2] only buyin trouble, them older models are in Arizona for a reason, [more than one reason ].
                          [3] In hindsight Status quo were not a bad band, the Pc-9's are good for almost nuttin.
                          "We will hold out until our last bullet is spent. Could do with some whiskey"
                          Radio transmission, siege of Jadotville DR Congo. September 1961.
                          Illegitimi non carborundum

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by ropebag View Post
                            the US supplied the Pakistanis with half a dozen AN/TPS77 mobile radars for $90m in about 2005 - two trucks and six operators each, 200+miles range, 100,000ft+ ceiling - if appropriate they can be used as fixed remote radar heads without a permanent crew, and their 'feed' goes wherever, and to whoever, you like.

                            who runs it is fairly irrelevent in the grans scheme of things, but as the AC have bog all experience of running an AD network it may as well be left in the hands of civvy ATC and the Dept of Transport with a feed going to the UK.
                            I am inclined to agree with you, but if that's done then nothing will change, call Fry and his minions into the office and tell 'em, there is a few bob, get on with it or find alternative employment, but first we need a minister of defence, if we get one of them we might some day get a credible defence force..
                            "We will hold out until our last bullet is spent. Could do with some whiskey"
                            Radio transmission, siege of Jadotville DR Congo. September 1961.
                            Illegitimi non carborundum

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                            • Originally posted by Turkey View Post
                              I am inclined to agree with you, but if that's done then nothing will change, call Fry and his minions into the office and tell 'em, there is a few bob, get on with it or find alternative employment, but first we need a minister of defence, if we get one of them we might some day get a credible defence force..
                              i'm not really qualified to comment on Coveney et al (though i'll say that from this side of the water, i've heard more from Shatter, Kenny and Coveney in the last few years on actual defence/overseas policy issues than i've heard from members of the IG in the rest on my adult life..), but i suppose it depends what level we're aiming for - buying radars and watching them is effectively a improvement-consolidation of the current situation, it doesn't offer a sovereign intercept/air policing capability, but it provides more information, and doesn't put another layer of management/beaurocracy into the way.

                              personally i'm with you on 'performance management' - i'd start with 'thou shalt operate 2 139's from West Freugh for the two weeks of JW next month, and if you don't fancy it you can retire to the ante room with the mess webley, and if you fail you can look for work in the booming fried chicken retail sector...'

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                              • They aren't mutually exclusive!

                                If you have fighters you need radar as you are talking about GCI. No point buying/leasing fighters if you don't know when to send them up.

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