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  1. #1
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    Irish Naval Mediterranean EU rescue patrols

    It seems we are about to send one of our ships to rescue migrants in peril of the sea. I'm thinking medical cover, including midwifery, injuries, dehydration, and infections. Clothing, food, of suitable categories. Ablution and toilet facilities. Adequate cover with deck insulated sheeting beneath. It will be a big task but should be within our compass, especially if we could work with another navy. We wish them well.

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  3. #2
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    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/irela...ions-1.2186617

    The Republic is to contribute a fully crewed and equipped ship to search and rescue efforts in the Mediterranean, Taoiseach Enda Kenny has said.
    Speaking on his way into today’s EU extraordinary summit in Brussels on migration, the Taoiseach said that the State would offer a naval vessel to humanitarian operations in the Mediterranean.
    “Depending on the caveats and the legal requirements here in respect of search and rescue for humanitarian functions, we are prepared to allocate a fully crewed and equipped naval vessel once the legal clarifications become clear.”

  4. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    ...I'm thinking medical cover, including midwifery, injuries, dehydration, and infections. Clothing, food, of suitable categories. Ablution and toilet facilities. Adequate cover with deck insulated sheeting beneath. It will be a big task but should be within our compass, especially if we could work with another navy. We wish them well.
    they won't need all that - they'll probably operate close to Malta, heave people out of the sea, set fire to the boat/deathtrap and be in Malta 3 hours later. they'll need lots of bottles of water, a big sunscreen lashed over the old flightdeck, and some basic first aid provision and a bucket.

    given that HMS Bulwark and two other RN 'patrol' ships are going (an RFA..?) you could just piggy-back on our Logs system.

  5. #4
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    L.E. Eithne while might seem like the preferred option has a very high free board to get people aboard unless the accomadation ladders are used,
    L. E, Samuel Beckett with its TEU capacity and lengthened after deck might be a better option.
    Just visiting

  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by ropebag View Post
    they won't need all that - they'll probably operate close to Malta, heave people out of the sea, set fire to the boat/deathtrap and be in Malta 3 hours later. they'll need lots of bottles of water, a big sunscreen lashed over the old flightdeck, and some basic first aid provision and a bucket.

    given that HMS Bulwark and two other RN 'patrol' ships are going (an RFA..?) you could just piggy-back on our Logs system.
    Migrants could be on board more than 24 hours. A hundred people or more need taking care of and a bucket sounds dismissive. Water and shelter, especially from hot decks needs consideration. It is not unusual for people to be taken on board bare footed and soaked.Suitable sustenance and first aid is obvious. Never burn boats but disposal of a completely abandoned craft needs consideration. We have sunk at least one ship by gunfire and it took time to complete the task. I have had experience of carrying worker deck passengers from Port Said to Suez through the Canal. Water, wooden pallets, and canvas screens were provided. we had external stations with boiling water for making drinks and 4 deck toilets Moslem style . I agree we should hold hands with HMS Bulwark

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    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    The 2 "other RN vessels" are UK Border Patrol vessels

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    looks like we might be sending Bulwark in a command and control capacity rather than to actually pick peopl out of the sea - it turns out some lawyer has reminded the Govt that refugees/whatever can ask for asylum as soon as they enter your territory, and HM ships class as territory, so no dumping them in Italy for the Italians to deal with/pay for...

    i'm shocked, shocked i tell you - and only two weeks out from an election dominated by the issue of immigration.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ropebag View Post
    looks like we might be sending Bulwark in a command and control capacity rather than to actually pick peopl out of the sea - it turns out some lawyer has reminded the Govt that refugees/whatever can ask for asylum as soon as they enter your territory, and HM ships class as territory, so no dumping them in Italy for the Italians to deal with/pay for...

    i'm shocked, shocked i tell you - and only two weeks out from an election dominated by the issue of immigration.
    Thought that was going to be the legal demand from Cameron? To be honest I figure that's the "legal clarification" that Enda want's as well, either that or something about not sinking the boats I guess.

  12. #9
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    The Law of the Sea requires all able to render aid to do so in order to save life. Don't process them as refugees. Just land them to be processed as required. They are shipwrecked or abandoned sea going persons/passengers. I wonder if the Preventative vessels have the range to steam south or will they be transported?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    The 2 "other RN vessels" are UK Border Patrol vessels
    That makes more sense than sending expensive Naval assets.
    Oh Fortune...like the moon...you are changeable...

  14. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by spider View Post
    That makes more sense than sending expensive Naval assets.
    Particularly as the RN cupboard is pretty damn empty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    Particularly as the RN cupboard is pretty damn empty.
    Indeed...seems to be the problem lots of Navies have these days. Those Border Agency Cutters are intended for this very role...patrolling the English Channel to prevent human trafficking (amongst other things). So a good call by Cameron.
    Oh Fortune...like the moon...you are changeable...

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  18. #13
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    I presume the clarification is that there is also talk of using force against people smuggling ops (and the refuge situation).

    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    The Law of the Sea requires all able to render aid to do so in order to save life. Don't process them as refugees. Just land them to be processed as required. They are shipwrecked or abandoned sea going persons/passengers. I wonder if the Preventative vessels have the range to steam south or will they be transported?
    . The clarification must be on what if someone claims refugee status while on board, we can't just do what we like internation humanitarian and human
    Rghts law we are talking about.
    Last edited by DeV; 24th April 2015 at 17:26.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    I presume the clarification is that there is also talk of using force against people smuggling ops (and the refuge situation).
    If the people have been taken off already I don't see why Ireland should have a problem with sinking them to prevent their reuse to be honest.

  21. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    If the people have been taken off already I don't see why Ireland should have a problem with sinking them to prevent their reuse to be honest.
    i would imagine that a barely floating, unmanned vessel in busy shipping lanes was a danger to all mariners, and that a consciencous and professional NS officer would take such action as he saw fit to ensure that an unneccesary hazard to shipping was removed.

    with a 76mm gun.

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  23. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by ropebag View Post
    i would imagine that a barely floating, unmanned vessel in busy shipping lanes was a danger to all mariners, and that a consciencous and professional NS officer would take such action as he saw fit to ensure that an unneccesary hazard to shipping was removed.

    with a 76mm gun.
    Sounds good to me, hope they take some film of it, though then the crusties might get upset...

  24. #18
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    The Law of the Sea requires all able to render aid to do so in order to save life.
    The Law of the Sea third edition by Churchill and Lowe makes no mention of the subject.I think its a moral obligation as opposed to actual Law.

    The clarification must be on what if someone claims refugee status while on board
    Yeah thought this might be an issue, given the ship is seen as being sovereign property and an extension of Ireland the state.

    consciencous and professional NS officer would take such action as he saw fit to ensure that an unneccesary hazard to shipping was removed.

    with a 76mm gun.
    Wouldn't be the first time, navigation hazard removal is well within the remit of the NS, LE Eithnes trip to Argentina gives some footage of same . Took part in some it myself on Eithne back in the 80's
    Just visiting

  25. #19
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    The Law of the Sea third edition by Churchill and Lowe makes no mention of the subject.I think its a moral obligation as opposed to actual Law..
    UNCLOS requires it
    SOLAS obliges you

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    Unfortunately we will (along with everyone else who sends a ship) probably just end up contributing to the problem if we follow the line currently set out by every brain dead EU leader which is providing anything less than an express ferry service to Europe makes you heartless xenophobic right-wing bastard. The way we're going, hundreds more Africans are going to end up drowning in the Med by the time the year is out. In these situations you have three options:

    1. Completely open up the borders to whoever wants to come.
    2. Do the same thing we are doing now which not that different to option one except we hold them in a camp for a few months before leaving them roam free in the EU.
    3. Blockade the ports where the boats are coming from or tow back all boats trying to reach Europe illegally.

    Well you can't follow option one for obvious reasons and option two just encourages smugglers to cram more people onto flimsy craft and ship them to Europe. Option three is the only option that has proven effective in modern times. Before a leader with the balls to ignore the more hysterical elements of the media came to power, Australia had the exact same problem as we face now. Then Abbott was elected and ordered the navy to turn around every boat they found trying to reach Australia and whala, boats stopped, illegal immigrants stopped drowning and people could stop worrying about some unsavoury characters slipping into the country unnoticed. There are never going to be enough navy boats to pluck everyone out of the Med so unless we are going to actually stop the boats leaving Libya, then don't bother going at all. Sometimes tough love saves lives.

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  28. #21
    Commander in Chief hptmurphy's Avatar
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    UNCLOS requires it
    SOLAS obliges you
    and none of these are unilaterally ratified.
    Just visiting

  29. #22
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    Minefields , that'l stop them .
    Don't spit in my Bouillabaisse .

  30. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by tomh903 View Post
    option two just encourages smugglers to cram more people onto flimsy craft and ship them to Europe.
    Absolutely, it will be open season for all and sundry and it will become a selling point for traffickers. Just head in that direction and the navy will pick you up and take you the rest of the way. Far from actually sorting the problem out it will compound it. Fair enough provide assistance to those in need of food, water, medical attention, but do it on route back to their point or origin. Once back in that territories waters, sorry chaps your on your own.

    Essentially all we will be doing is assisting in providing safe transport and attending to the welfare needs of untold numbers while they are in transit, and have to watch those numbers increase as a result of it. The issue needs to be dealt with at source and unfortunately that's what our illustrious politicians are refusing to do.
    We travel not for trafficking alone,
    By hotter winds our fiery hearts are fanned,
    For lust of knowing what should not be known,
    We make the Golden Journey to Samarkand.

  31. #24
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    Send Eithne. Case made for an EPV as a replacement at a single stroke.

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  33. #25
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    Her former helideck can be covered in the marquee that's usually used for functions aboard. Only a short walk from the waterline access.

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