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  • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
    What technology has taken over the role of a ship based helicopter?
    And why does the rest of the world not know about this wonder technology as the majority of new build of the 1800ton+ OPV's all have an on-board heli?
    UAVs not as mulriRole but an option

    Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
    Non alignment is so misunderstood in this country, many think it means pacifism. What we forget is that while an aligned member of NATO is expected to spend 2% of GDP the reason why there are so many members is that such an alliance allows for sharing of defence costs. For a non-aligned nation they have to be capable of providing all the necessary capabilities on their own, it is a reason why non-aligned countries are expected to pay a higher percentage.
    We are not non-aligned we are well aligned with the EU

    Comment


    • What technology has taken over the role of a ship based helicopter?
      And why does the rest of the world not know about this wonder technology as the majority of new build of the 1800ton+ OPV's all have an on-board heli?
      If you were as knowledgeable as you believe you would know why the helo became outmoded

      The original concept of the ship borne helicopter in the Irish Naval Service was to enhance Fishery Protection detection, this was made redundant by improved monitoring and computerized systems, there was no longer no need for an eye in the sky so to speak. The Dauphin at sea served no other function when it was available and indeed the helo was so limited in the role it was contributory to only one detention when it did eventually become operational.

      A single UAV of lesser cost and in need of less manpower hours in upkeep could easily perform that observation role as provided by the Dauphins.

      Non alignment is so misunderstood in this country, many think it means pacifism. What we forget is that while an aligned member of NATO is expected to spend 2% of GDP the reason why there are so many members is that such an alliance allows for sharing of defence costs. For a non-aligned nation they have to be capable of providing all the necessary capabilities on their own, it is a reason why non-aligned countries are expected to pay a higher percentage


      NATO was built as a war fighting alliance a deterent to the Warsaw pact specifically to fight a war in Northern / Western Europe, it is not the UN or an alliance for peace. Its aim was to build a force that could take on the Warsaw Pact with common doctrine and equipment ,its assets and command being pooled among the members. By not signing up to it we not only missed out on huge opportunities to avail of access to equipment and logistics and greatly reduced prices but we also all but alienated ourselves politically from NATO by the repeated stance on neutrality which of course was a very thin veil for success Irish governments to spend money to keep us on a par with the realistic requirements for neutrality as demonstrated by Switzerland or Sweden.

      Our Naval Service has only risen to the capacity it currently has due to the willingness of the EU to contribute to the building costs in order to have a credible fishery protection fleet in the biggest fishing grounds in the EU. The fishery protection work undertaken is on behalf of the EU. Only recently has the EU begun to raise 'battle groups' which are in effect a second line to NATO and because of our EU membership our stance with NATO hasn't had to be compromised to contribute to the battle groups.

      As with our still evolving civil war politics we are still at least two generations away from moving on from our neutrality stance and becoming team players with NATO.

      We are not non-aligned we are well aligned with the EU
      Yes within the EU......being able to put a mechanised company on the ground , or manning the phones really puts up up there with the major players........
      Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

      Comment


      • We definitely have the doctrine, just not sufficient personnel or equipment
        No.... We do not have a doctrine for force projection...

        The Defence Forces' mission is: “To contribute to the security of the State by providing for the military defence of its territorial integrity and to fulfil all roles assigned by Government, through the deployment of well-motivated and effective Defence Forces.”
        To defend one must be able to protect itself adequately to take the fight to the enemy, we live in a country with no air defence, its maritime forces squarely rigged for ATCP and humanitarian missions and a demoralized, under paid army with only token means to defend, never mind assault an enemy.

        Again its not the DF who are at fault but the politcos, civil servants and therefore the citizenry of the state.
        Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

        Comment


        • Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
          If you were as knowledgeable as you believe you would know why the helo became outThe original concept of the ship borne helicopter in the Irish Naval Service was to enhance Fishery Protection detection, this was made redundant by improved monitoring and computerized systems, there was no longer no need for an eye in the sky so to speak.
          yes so long as the FV has its AIS and transponder turned on, that's why CASA flights continue (and they do detect).

          NATO was built as a war fighting alliance a deterent to the Warsaw pact specifically to fight a war in Northern / Western Europe, it is not the from NATO by the repeated stance on neutrality which of course was a very thin veil for success Irish governments to spend money to keep us on a par with the realistic requirements for neutrality as demonstrated by Switzerland or Sweden.

          As with our still evolving civil war politics we are still at least two generations away from moving on from our neutrality stance and becoming team players with NATO.
          PfP
          U.K. MOU

          Yes within the EU......being able to put a mechanised company on the ground , or manning the phones really puts up up there with the major players........
          Providing a Mech Inf Bn to Chad and the Force Operational Commander

          Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
          No.... We do not have a doctrine for force projection....
          You said war fighting - we most definitely do have the doctrine!

          Force projection doctrine is more than likely there too

          Comment


          • Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
            No....




            Again its not the DF who are at fault but the politcos, civil servants and therefore the citizenry of the state.
            Perhaps you should also include uniformed Staffs at all levels. Any unit deployed, whether Naval or Military, must be fully equipped to meet in theater requirements of detection, protection, and offence as required. It is the uniformed Branches that decide we are "Good to Go". In the real world leaving critical areas short of resources is high lighted daily in the Media , and may be, should be met by a decline to approve or sign off by the Brass hats? I,m recommending that the Order of Battle and associated equipment and personnel as approved must be met at all times.
            Last edited by ancientmariner; 12 August 2017, 10:54.

            Comment


            • Please keep to topic; for reference, the topic is rescues in the Med . A valid debate around defence naval capabilities is worth having, just not in this thread.
              "Are they trying to shoot down the other drone? "

              "No, they're trying to fly the tank"

              Comment


              • Originally posted by trellheim View Post
                Please keep to topic; for reference, the topic is rescues in the Med . A valid debate around defence naval capabilities is worth having, just not in this thread.
                Orders received load and clear, over to EPV

                Comment


                • Originally posted by hptmurphy View Post
                  To defend one must be able to protect itself adequately to take the fight to the enemy, we live in a country with no air defence, its maritime forces squarely rigged for ATCP and humanitarian missions and a demoralized, under paid army with only token means to defend, never mind assault an enemy.

                  Again its not the DF who are at fault but the politcos, civil servants and therefore the citizenry of the state.
                  Could not agree more with you on this one, so what is your answer to change things?

                  Comment


                  • Libyan coastguard to restrict access of humanitarian vessels in waters of coast of Libya

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                    • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                      So this removes our fall back for a MO then?

                      Comment


                      • Potential hostages?

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by EUFighter View Post
                          Could not agree more with you on this one, so what is your answer to change things?
                          There isn't an answer

                          Its not fixable.

                          No political will to take it on as there is no sense of national defence from the citizens of the country.

                          Once you understand how e have got to this point since independence and look how it happened, there isn't a way back or even a way forward.
                          Covid 19 is not over ....it's still very real..Hand Hygiene, Social Distancing and Masks.. keep safe

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by DeV View Post
                            Potential hostages?
                            Or creating a cartel / Monopoly on the income source

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by TangoSierra View Post
                              Or creating a cartel / Monopoly on the income source
                              Presently with our P63 we are exercising with the Italian navy, including close approach for simulated/live RAS. These exercises will show over time any shortfalls in our equipments, procedures, and communications. It is an opportunity to note any modifications for implementation in our current or future ships.
                              Modern OPV's of 90metres and above can be equipped to a light frigate status and improve it's survivability in unexpected hot encounters on overseas missions. Going forward the uniformed Branch must lay down Naval capabilities and not be influenced by the Civil Service.

                              Comment

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