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  1. #51
    C/S FMP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    We must not be part of genetically engineering Europe.
    Sweet Jesus!! That sounds scary! Not exactly what I meant with my post, more looking at the aspects of the "return to sender" option.
    We travel not for trafficking alone,
    By hotter winds our fiery hearts are fanned,
    For lust of knowing what should not be known,
    We make the Golden Journey to Samarkand.

  2. #52
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    The crux of the issue is simple. Africa needs to be stabilised. It has been clear that since Europe ceased influencing politics in Africa, state by state they have returned to the savage spear chucking that they knew and loved.
    Otherwise the only solution is to contain their political problems within the continent of Africa. Don't export it to Europe by any route.

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  4. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by FMP View Post
    Sweet Jesus!! That sounds scary! Not exactly what I meant with my post, more looking at the aspects of the "return to sender" option.
    Sorry! it was a throw away remark. O'Brien in today's Sunday Independent has an interesting article on the matter. He believes that the leak is Libya's immense coastline. He is of the opinion that Libya could be run , occupied, and thereby curtail trafficking. He believes Libya is sufficiently contained both geographically and by strong countries on its western border, to bring the problem under control. In any event the Minister must control our involvement until we are sure it won't have negative effects.

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  6. #54
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    In any event the Minister must control our involvement until we are sure it won't have negative effects.
    Are we commiting to a EU led mission or freelancing based on the ministers whims? The key is a task force probably led by italy and Malta with the intenion of prevent unauthorized acces to the EU and Malta.

    In order to reduce loss of life the intended migrants have to be prevented from getting to sea. So is it actually an entirely naval operation or should ground forces be involved to stop these boats putting to sea, and then the naval forces to prevent them getting beyond a fixed point should they get to sea.

    I believe Kenny had a knee jerk reaction to public opinion to get involved what is in effect closing the stable door after the horse has gone.......and its not going to be Eithne, more like Roisin or Niamh!!!
    Pay them properly.....and they will come!

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  8. #55
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    No evidence for this but looking at the proposed Mediterranean involvement and the donation of Aoife to Malta it looks to me like nudging from European partners. Ireland is simply being expected to do more.

  9. #56
    Closed account hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orion View Post
    No evidence for this but looking at the proposed Mediterranean involvement and the donation of Aoife to Malta it looks to me like nudging from European partners. Ireland is simply being expected to do more.
    We don't have the resources to do more other than that which we offer.

    Aoife is to have her hull surveyed in the drydock next week pending transfer,L.E. Samuel Beckett has warranty issues that would preclude her from deploment such as this, the CPVs are not suitable for an amount of reasons, the delay of James Joyce has been put back and again would probably have the same warranty issues as Beckett, leaving Roisin and Niamh as the other suitable vessels.

    L.E. Eithne is not suitable in my opinion for reasons already offered and if L.E. Aisling were to be deployed, might as well book the crew tickets home by air.....

    If we were full up to strenght, we could indeed offer more, but we're a little thin on the ground regarding suitable vessels.

    Fine for the Italians who can nip home on the turn of a tide, we are looking at an extended unsupported deployment, with huge potential implications.

    Slow down, we'll get something out there as soon as the boxes are ticked.
    Pay them properly.....and they will come!

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  11. #57
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    President says plan to destroy migrant boats 'monstrous'

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0427/697163-migrants/

  12. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    We don't have the resources to do more other than that which we offer.

    Aoife is to have her hull surveyed in the drydock next week pending transfer,L.E. Samuel Beckett has warranty issues that would preclude her from deploment such as this, the CPVs are not suitable for an amount of reasons, the delay of James Joyce has been put back and again would probably have the same warranty issues as Beckett, leaving Roisin and Niamh as the other suitable vessels.

    L.E. Eithne is not suitable in my opinion for reasons already offered and if L.E. Aisling were to be deployed, might as well book the crew tickets home by air.....

    If we were full up to strenght, we could indeed offer more, but we're a little thin on the ground regarding suitable vessels.

    Fine for the Italians who can nip home on the turn of a tide, we are looking at an extended unsupported deployment, with huge potential implications.

    Slow down, we'll get something out there as soon as the boxes are ticked.
    Quick question, what warranty issues for Beckett would restrict her from deployment? Thought her Warranty was out to be honest?

  13. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rhodes View Post
    President says plan to destroy migrant boats 'monstrous'

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/0427/697163-migrants/
    Yeah I saw that, tell us Higgins what exactly do you propose, given the population growth and instability in Africa/Middle East, that we do?

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  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    Yeah I saw that, tell us Higgins what exactly do you propose, given the population growth and instability in Africa/Middle East, that we do?
    Well, I didn't vote for him (I always thought he was a pillock, from when he wrote in Hot Press in the 80's)...
    Last edited by Flamingo; 27th April 2015 at 19:32.
    'He died who loved to live,' they'll say,
    'Unselfishly so we might have today!'
    Like hell! He fought because he had to fight;
    He died that's all. It was his unlucky night.
    http://www.salamanderoasis.org/poems...nnis/luck.html

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  17. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    We don't have the resources to do more other than that which we offer.

    Aoife is to have her hull surveyed in the drydock next week pending transfer,L.E. Samuel Beckett has warranty issues that would preclude her from deploment such as this, the CPVs are not suitable for an amount of reasons, the delay of James Joyce has been put back and again would probably have the same warranty issues as Beckett, leaving Roisin and Niamh as the other suitable vessels.

    L.E. Eithne is not suitable in my opinion for reasons already offered and if L.E. Aisling were to be deployed, might as well book the crew tickets home by air.....

    If we were full up to strenght, we could indeed offer more, but we're a little thin on the ground regarding suitable vessels.

    Fine for the Italians who can nip home on the turn of a tide, we are looking at an extended unsupported deployment, with huge potential implications.

    Slow down, we'll get something out there as soon as the boxes are ticked.



    Eithne well capable, only downside is speed. Aisling one of the most reliable vessels in the fleet, just ask the ERAs....

  18. #62
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    Send Aisling out, Leave her there?

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  20. #63
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    The Peacocks?

  21. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    The Peacocks?
    Crew conditions would be murder....

    Eithne well capable, only downside is speed.
    Same issue with Aisling if speed was the issue separation of refugees to an isolation area would be a concern , getting them on board given the height of the freeboard and limited access to flight deck from afterdeck.

    Quick question, what warranty issues for Beckett would restrict her from deployment?
    Don't think the NS would be overly happy to send her to the med until the problems with JJ are sorted just in case they are replicated in SB
    Pay them properly.....and they will come!

  22. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by hptmurphy View Post
    Don't think the NS would be overly happy to send her to the med until the problems with JJ are sorted just in case they are replicated in SB
    If it is in the props surely the problem would have show itself before now, besides hasn't she already been in the graving dock for inspections before the Warranty ran out?

  23. #66
    Closed account hptmurphy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    If it is in the props surely the problem would have show itself before now, besides hasn't she already been in the graving dock for inspections before the Warranty ran out?
    I don't know the specifics of the issues and reckon that the warrantys are a little more detailed than your standard parts and labour for 12 months given a ships complexity and the fact they are building a second one.
    Pay them properly.....and they will come!

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  25. #67
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    Surely the warranty shouldn't limit the use of the vessel though
    There is no problem that cannot be fixed with high explosive.

  26. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stinger View Post
    Surely the warranty shouldn't limit the use of the vessel though
    If you declare a guarantee fault that is limiting the full use of the ship , then it needs to be mended. Any other action weakens the guarantee. Likewise , unless your Techs are trained by equipment providers to undertake guarantee work then you are waiting for the supplier to mend the problem. If you use the ship, whether or which. you are diluting your case for who pays for what?

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  28. #69
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    As was discovered when the Mowags started giving trouble overseas....

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  30. #70
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    Ah!!
    There is no problem that cannot be fixed with high explosive.

  31. #71
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmití View Post
    As was discovered when the Mowags started giving trouble overseas....
    Wasn't that to do with canabulisation ?

  32. #72
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    It was also to do with warranty, which Mowag walked away from once they realised there had been cannibalisation.

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  34. #73
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    Getting back to migrants and the Mediterranean sea. MOD announced today that LE Eithne is being deployed on task next week subject to agreed protocols with the local Naval Authorities. Obviously adaptable space matters. Pity about the monument on F.Dk. Port. Otherwise emergency land-ons available if we had an HCO/FDO.
    Good to see something happen. Bon Voyage and be Good To Go.

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  36. #74
    CQMS Dogwatch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    Getting back to migrants and the Mediterranean sea. MOD announced today that LE Eithne is being deployed on task next week subject to agreed protocols with the local Naval Authorities. Obviously adaptable space matters. Pity about the monument on F.Dk. Port. Otherwise emergency land-ons available if we had an HCO/FDO.
    Good to see something happen. Bon Voyage and be Good To Go.
    Flight deck land-on capability is gone since 2000 - let it go!
    The additional RHIB will prove more valuable in being able to recover people from the water, as the flightdeck and hangar will be used to house anyone recovered, thereby negating the use of the flight deck for helo ops.

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  38. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogwatch View Post
    Flight deck land-on capability is gone since 2000 - let it go!
    The additional RHIB will prove more valuable in being able to recover people from the water, as the flightdeck and hangar will be used to house anyone recovered, thereby negating the use of the flight deck for helo ops.
    i think the wider lesson from all this is that, in the immortal words, you're going to need a bigger boat...

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