Irish Naval Mediterranean EU rescue patrols

[jack nastyface]

I believe a number of body's recovered from a barge by Niamh today.

[Herald]

I believe a number of body's recovered from a barge by Niamh today.

Yes, sad.
Report here:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/l%C3%A9-niamh-recovers-14-bodies-during-mediterranean-rescue-1.2299645

[ancientmariner]

mediterranean duties

Yes, sad.
Report here:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world...scue-1.2299645

It is sad. It also is abhorrent that any individual, organisation, or belief would put anybody into that potential hazard. When the craft leaves North Africa, is it towed and dumped or is it crewed and conned to the pick-up point. If it is crewed then somebody is in charge and he must be able to create a link to the boat owners and the travel organisers.
The ship now has close to 500 on board plus 14 fatalities. It would be better if the Italian Navy and Coastguard made a different arrangement and ship for handling fatalities. Such a duality of rescue is unseemly. Perhaps towing the barge at slow speed, with cadavers, in body bags, on board, until it can be taken over by another vessel. Or mark the barge with lights and a locator beacon to again be picked up by a tasked vessel. I dont think one size fits all.

[hptmurphy]

It is sad. It also is abhorrent that any individual, organisation, or belief would put anybody into that potential hazard. When the craft leaves North Africa, is it towed and dumped or is it crewed and conned to the pick-up point. If it is crewed then somebody is in charge and he must be able to create a link to the boat owners and the travel organisers.
The ship now has close to 500 on board plus 14 fatalities. It would be better if the Italian Navy and Coastguard made a different arrangement and ship for handling fatalities. Such a duality of rescue is unseemly. Perhaps towing the barge at slow speed, with cadavers, in body bags, on board, until it can be taken over by another vessel. Or mark the barge with lights and a locator beacon to again be picked up by a tasked vessel. I dont think one size fits all.

I'm sure the NS had a contingency plan all along for this type of event as it would have been foremost in their mind going back to Eithnes commencement of the mission. Given the death tolls that were witnessed in the earlier part of the year and the potential for it becoming a recovery rather that a rescue operation all these things would have been considered.

My own sense of disbelief centred around the fact that it was only now in the second mission that they had actually come across people who had not survived into the rescue phase.

Should the mission extend beyond September and any decline in sea conditions these number may rise.It would appear nothing is being done to stop these people going to sea in the first place thus causing this type of event.

I think EUFOR needs to deploy and secure possible departure points in Libya to prevetn this type of find going forward. An if means deploying Irish Soldiers to work along side the Irish Mariners already proving excellent service, so be it.

Unfortunately our western morality does not always sit easily on the shoulders of those of other origins, supply and demand, as long as there are people who are willing to take the risk and migrate, others will facilitate. Because of the perceived potential end result for the migrants, far away hills looking greener etc, percentage wise its probably worth the risk. And someone will always exploit that

[jack nastyface]

I'm sure the NS had a contingency plan all along for this type of event as it would have been foremost in their mind going back to Eithnes commencement of the mission. Given the death tolls that were witnessed in the earlier part of the year and the potential for it becoming a recovery rather that a rescue operation all these things would have been considered.

My own sense of disbelief centred around the fact that it was only now in the second mission that they had actually come across people who had not survived into the rescue phase.

Should the mission extend beyond September and any decline in sea conditions these number may rise.It would appear nothing is being done to stop these people going to sea in the first place thus causing this type of event.

I think EUFOR needs to deploy and secure possible departure points in Libya to prevetn this type of find going forward. An if means deploying Irish Soldiers to work along side the Irish Mariners already proving excellent service, so be it.

Unfortunately our western morality does not always sit easily on the shoulders of those of other origins, supply and demand, as long as there are people who are willing to take the risk and migrate, others will facilitate. Because of the perceived potential end result for the migrants, far away hills looking greener etc, percentage wise its probably worth the risk. And someone will always exploit that

With you 100% hptm. All very well doing the humanitarian bit, but the nettle is going to have to be grasped in dealing with the traffickers. And dealing with them robustly. And some system bringing them back to the point of departure. Keeping them in safe humane conditions. Then processing who is a genuine asylum seeker.

[ancientmariner]

Migrant risks

I'm sure the NS had a contingency plan all along for this type of event as it would have been foremost in their mind going back to Eithnes commencement of the mission. Given the death tolls that were witnessed in the earlier part of the year and the potential for it becoming a recovery rather that a rescue operation all these things would have been considered.

My own sense of disbelief centred around the fact that it was only now in the second mission that they had actually come across people who had not survived into the rescue phase.

Should the mission extend beyond September and any decline in sea conditions these number may rise.It would appear nothing is being done to stop these people going to sea in the first place thus causing this type of event.

I think EUFOR needs to deploy and secure possible departure points in Libya to prevetn this type of find going forward. An if means deploying Irish Soldiers to work along side the Irish Mariners already proving excellent service, so be it.

Unfortunately our western morality does not always sit easily on the shoulders of those of other origins, supply and demand, as long as there are people who are willing to take the risk and migrate, others will facilitate. Because of the perceived potential end result for the migrants, far away hills looking greener etc, percentage wise its probably worth the risk. And someone will always exploit that

Mostly agree, especially putting in approved controls, even boots on the ground. All countries are represented in the UN. Time the security Council brought all the causative countries to book. In 1958 Nigeria had the best Civil Service and Forces outside of the UK. Right now it is a self centered basket case in continuous melt down, followed by Zimbabwe, Somalia,Syria, Libya, and countries on the verge.

[DeV]

There is already:
2 x FRONTEX ops
EUNAVFOR Med
EUBAM Libya
UNSMILING

Maybe it is time for EUNAVFOR Med to step it up and UNSMIL & EUBAM to get more resources.

What is needed in Libya is peace, stability and a national government.

[hptmurphy]

Its has been proven time and again that western intervention to solve problems in other countries is a long drawn out costly affair that more or less sorts nothing especially while on the rebound from Sadaam Hussein , Ghadaffi etc

What is needed in Libya is peace, stability and a national government

Ghadaffi in his own right provided this and probably would have been more effective policing it that any outside agency ever will, despite the methods.

I think what has to happen right or wrong is EUFOR, regardless of the security council need to move and creat FOBs on the Libyan Coast as an extension of the naval forces working in the area.

Thousands, perhaps hundreds of persons will take the risk of these perilous journeys with large amounts dying if we are to wait for the situation to stabilize in Libya. Tunisia and Eygpt could possible to commit from interested parties, The Tunisians would probably be stretched given their domestic problems but unless some one stops the boats actually putting to see people will die.

Anything security council lead will be vetoed by Russia and China, anything with American involvement will go bananas altogether, its becoming a European problem, get the Europeans to at least stop the boats getting in the water.

Right now it is a self centered basket case in continuous melt down, followed by Zimbabwe, Somalia,Syria, Libya, and countries on the verge.

Put an embargo on their oil exports and see how compliant and helpful they become. Nigeria is a wealthy country in comparrison to some of the countries mentioned, they need to police their own borders and create some degree of social equality at home to stop this migration.

Should Syria completely fail whether it end up being Assad or IS, we are only looking at the tip of the iceberg..

If Africa and the middle east can't sort its problems as the west has proved we can't, we need to defend ourselves against the human tide that will be a fallout from all future conflict in this part of the world.

Boots on ground now..or we are leaving part of our navy out there indefinitely.

[DeV]

Rich countries also have power (Nigeria has a lot of oil), they also have human rights abuses (which means asylum seekers are found to be valid (again Nigeria).

In 2014, 19.5% of asylum seekers coming to the EU were Syrian. Every other country in the world was in the single figures (next highest was under 7%).

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/images/b/b9/Asylum_statistics_YB2015_IV.xlsx

[na grohmiti]

The current situation at Calais is a by-product from what is going on in the Mediterranean. Illegal migrants are leaving Italy (which has neither the space nor interest in accommodating them) and heading north. France has been hands off dealing with illegal migrants for years, choosing instead to penalise those who are most likely to pay up, i.e the truckers and their insurance.
If we are to attempt to deal with the migrant crisis in the med we need to assist in creating a secure home for them in their own country, and at the same time have stronger border controls at the European frontiers. The USA's response to the Irish Coffin ships (and others) was Ellis Island. Controlled entry, health screening, forced deportations. It isn't PC, but having migrant enclaves on welfare won't work either.
The colonels daughter in the dail hates the idea of Frontex. This means it is a good idea and something we should encourage and be a part of.
Finding the bodies in the latest rescue just shows the fantastic effort carried out by the Irish NS and others in rescuing those in unsuitable craft has actually, as predicted, encouraged the people traffickers to take greater risks with their cargo's lives.
But this is not a reason we should stop. Instead we should use our success to encourage other EU navies and coast guards to get involved. UNHCR should also take an active part in repatriating those not at risk who for all other purposes are just illegal immigrants to the EU.

[Orion]

There are calls in the UK for the army to be deployed to lock down the Calais access situation - not ideal but the same principle as the Med if you are guaranteed not to succeed then you won't try

[Flamingo]

There are calls in the UK for the army to be deployed to lock down the Calais access situation - not ideal but the same principle as the Med if you are guaranteed not to succeed then you won't try

Which army? This is French soil it's happening on, and the French are not going to deploy anybody to prevent people who are potential hassle leaving France!

Has anybody any figures for approximatly how many are making it to Ireland off the back of lorries from France?

[The real Jack]

It is a bit of karma for the UK though - they thought the Libyan arms expo sorry I mean operation to remove Gaddafi was great craic until Libya quit stopping the migrants en route to the UK.

[Orion]

The British Army for the UK side - I assume confidence is waning in the UK border force and their ability to stop illegal immigrants. There are estimated to be around 800,000 living in the UK at the moment.
I'm sure France could if they wished apply a similar level of control and work with the UK to stop the flow of migrants.

[morpheus]

Ellis Island.... now theres a thought....

long term its cheaper to charter flights back to their country of origin. failing that,

turn spike into a processing centre with temp accommodation

any fugee caught in the country send them to spike

create a fugee database

biometrically ID everyone who arrives there (in fact we should probably biometrically Id the entire population and give them all national ID cards) and put them into the DB so that any re-offenders
get dumped out straight away if theyve already been processed as non successful applicant for asylum

Find those claiming to be professionals and give them tests in their fields to prove the documentation or ask them to provide references etc back home.

Take only those who fall into 1 of 2 categories:
1. Professionals or those with skills required in the work force or with means to start their own business etc
2. GENUINE solid 100% asylum seekers who are on the run from certain death or serious oppression

send the rest of the economic migrants back and be done with it.


with forced deportations via cork airport back to country of origin, if country of origin cannot be determined, then back to the last country they came from.