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  1. #951
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A/TEL View Post
    P64 is a replacement for one of the P40s (which one yet to be decided)
    That's yet to be publicly announced??

  2. #952
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmití View Post
    P31 (1)
    P41 (2)
    P42 (3)
    P51 (4)
    P52 (5)
    P61 (6)
    P62 (7)
    P63 (8)
    Plus P64 currently being built makes 9.
    What's your point?
    My point is that P64 is due in sometime in 2018. With one away, it leave only 7 left to patrol the coast of Ireland. Given staff shortages and routine / maintenance requirements, it puts undue pressure on the limited resources committing a ship to the cause. Does even 9 ships actually meet minimum requirements ?

  3. #953
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    What is your concept of minimum requirements in terms of units needed to meet intended outputs.

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  5. #954
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    Quote Originally Posted by danno View Post
    What is your concept of minimum requirements in terms of units needed to meet intended outputs.
    Well from working near the base for a year or so, it would appear that out of a fleet of 8 ships, the navy struggle to have 4 ships on patrol at any one time. With 1 of the 8 gone now, what impact will this have at anyone service delivery? I would really hope the the need for additional ships is recognised soon and that in the medium future we will see the fleet expanding to at least 12 ships

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  7. #955
    The Auld Fella A/TEL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    That's yet to be publicly announced??

    Trust me, will not be going to 9 ships until there is an increase in establishment. Simply don't have the manpower for 9 ships, or the moneyl!.

  8. #956
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    Quote Originally Posted by ibenji View Post
    Well from working near the base for a year or so, it would appear that out of a fleet of 8 ships, the navy struggle to have 4 ships on patrol at any one time. With 1 of the 8 gone now, what impact will this have at anyone service delivery? I would really hope the the need for additional ships is recognised soon and that in the medium future we will see the fleet expanding to at least 12 ships
    I would have thought that was a very good ratio. Compare with Air Corps availability ratio.

  9. #957
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smithy View Post
    I would have thought that was a very good ratio. Compare with Air Corps availability ratio.
    Maybe so but this dropped to as low as two. Given the geographic size of the the area to be patrolled, between two and four ships available is well below what's actually required.

  10. #958
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    Quote Originally Posted by ibenji View Post
    Maybe so but this dropped to as low as two. Given the geographic size of the the area to be patrolled, between two and four ships available is well below what's actually required.
    Our practical concerns in using and managing the Naval Fleet is of NO concern to the mandarins in the CS. They know we will make every effort but are not embarrassed by failure or shortfalls. In 2017 three ships and crews will be taking part in Operation Pontus in the Mediterranean using sizeable portions of manpower, resources, and fuel from budgets. It is up to uniformed branches to keep submitting development plans for expansion and Defensive capability.

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  12. #959
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    Given that FP patrol activity has dropped off by 50 % in the last few years without any apparent outcry from the SFPA/trawler operators then might it be safe to conclude that PONTUS is not having such an adverse impact on outputs.

  13. #960
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    Quote Originally Posted by danno View Post
    Given that FP patrol activity has dropped off by 50 % in the last few years without any apparent outcry from the SFPA/trawler operators then might it be safe to conclude that PONTUS is not having such an adverse impact on outputs.
    Not sure of "drop " in inspections by SFPA. In 2015 the out-turn was a total of 2745 inspections of all types , of which , the Navy did 1078 boardings at sea, an average of 2.95 per day. The balance would be landing inspections, inshore inspections for shell fishers , and community inspections carried out by EU exchange inspectors. In 2015 the Navy made 10 detentions . If 3 ships were patrolling 24/7 then they did one boarding, each, every day for 365 days. Seems ok to me. I,m sure Op. Pontus doesn't impact

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  15. #961
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    So no 9 ship Navy then. Is that confirmed? One of the Peacocks is being struck?

  16. #962
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    Aisling was towed away over the weekend towards Europe . Didn't hear anything about P41/P42. Current roll call 2 CPV's, 1 Hpv (- ), 5 OPV's, 1 OPV (Building ). The former three ships are due replacement within next few years to maintain a 9 ship Navy.

  17. #963
    The Auld Fella A/TEL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jetjock View Post
    So no 9 ship Navy then. Is that confirmed? One of the Peacocks is being struck?

    One of the P40 to be retired. Which one, is still up for decision.

    If i was a guessing man id say the retired one will be stripped bare to keep the other going for the remainder of its service.

  18. #964
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    Quote Originally Posted by A/TEL View Post
    One of the P40 to be retired. Which one, is still up for decision.

    If i was a guessing man id say the retired one will be stripped bare to keep the other going for the remainder of its service.
    So is the WP plan already junked in terms of the proposed replacement of the CPV's?

  19. #965
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    Quote Originally Posted by A/TEL View Post
    One of the P40 to be retired. Which one, is still up for decision.

    If i was a guessing man id say the retired one will be stripped bare to keep the other going for the remainder of its service.
    WOuld it not make more sense to dispose of both at the same time? Some inshore coast guard might have use for them, but their usefulness is limited as 2 ships, even less for one. The accom standards aboard are no longer fit for purpose, and compared to all other ships, being posted in those conditions aboard this single unit could be seen as punishment to our bright new snowflake generation. Not to mention the obvious gender bias.
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  21. #966
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmití View Post
    WOuld it not make more sense to dispose of both at the same time? Some inshore coast guard might have use for them, but their usefulness is limited as 2 ships, even less for one.
    Why not see if the Philippines want them to join with their sisters?

  22. #967
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    So is the WP plan already junked in terms of the proposed replacement of the CPV's?
    No not necessarily.

    The establishment would have to be increased to enable operation of a 9th ship.

    That would involve more recruits/cadets/direct entries.

    That cant happen overnight.

    The current strength is struggling to man 8 ships.

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  24. #968
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    Why not see if the Philippines want them to join with their sisters?
    Not the worst idea in the world. Its designed for their waters anyway.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
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  26. #969
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    Quote Originally Posted by A/TEL View Post
    One of the P40 to be retired. Which one, is still up for decision.

    If i was a guessing man id say the retired one will be stripped bare to keep the other going for the remainder of its service.
    Can her armament be reused here?

  27. #970
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    Quote Originally Posted by danno View Post
    Can her armament be reused here?
    Could be used as the armament of P64 surely?

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  29. #971
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    Same thought here provided it is servicble and can be coupled up to the FCS etc.

  30. #972
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    Leaves you with the problem of getting the provider of power systems and FCS matching his system to the gun. Also the builder fitting the gun and ammo supply system to the dimensional aspects of the ship. All our guns are old MARKS and in the case of Peacocks pre 1982. If I could avoid it, I would not do it as the gun would be 65 years old at the end of the new ship's life.

  31. #973
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    Leaves you with the problem of getting the provider of power systems and FCS matching his system to the gun. Also the builder fitting the gun and ammo supply system to the dimensional aspects of the ship. All our guns are old MARKS and in the case of Peacocks pre 1982. If I could avoid it, I would not do it as the gun would be 65 years old at the end of the new ship's life.
    Are the two Peacock mounts different marks to those on the P60's? If not then I don't see why any of those would be an issue? Moreover haven't we bought second hand 76mm's for the 60's anyway, and given the comments in regard to how the budget is being squeezed to provide for capital expenditure, shouldn't the upfront saving of €5 million by reusing the mount be looked at? Unless we were to get a good offer for a complete hull...

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  33. #974
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    Was there not an issue with the Oto's on the P40's and a potential to self destruct at max ROF?

  34. #975
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sparky42 View Post
    Why not see if the Philippines want them to join with their sisters?
    The Philippines have been planning to upgrade their "Peacocks" for some time now ....If they go ahead I'd say they would love to obtain both P40s. (Sell both)

    I'd personally replace them with a pair of RN Batch1 Rivers. If they become available they will be inexpensive and will be good for at least 20 years.

    The INS can then concentrate on a significant replacement for LE Eithne.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/River-class_patrol_vessel



    On 24 April 2017, in a written answer to a question raised by Sir Nicholas Soames, Parliamentary Under-Secretary for Defence Harriet Baldwin stated Severn would be decommissioned in 2017, with Mersey and Clyde following in 2019[14]. As of April 2017, no date has been given Tyne's decommissioning.

    So they are available.........HMS Clyde was constructed as a variant with helideck (just sayin')
    Last edited by Galloglass; 25th April 2017 at 23:53.

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