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  1. #976
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    Different machinery, different armament, different RIBs even.
    No advantage whatsoever, and after watching the latest episode of warship I'd be concerned about the condition after such a short spell in service.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

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  3. #977
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    RN have been poor on ship design since forever. They have gone through nine frigate types since 1946, average life about 7 years. Our weapon systems and resurrecting any old iron are an embarrassment to any genre of Surface Combat ships. It is getting difficult out at sea and needs modern solutions with stand off capabilities for all grey ships.

  4. #978
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    AFAIK Ocean is built to commercial standards

  5. #979
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    AFAIK Ocean is built to commercial standards
    She is yeah, and there's been complaints about her for a long time, that being said there's suggestions the Brazilian's are willing to pay 100m for her (though given their track record who knows). In the larger picture, the 23's and Ocean were built with a RN view of a) doing a major midlife refit costs a substantial portion of a new build and leaves you with an old hull, b) maintain the industrial base (except reality of UK funding means this has been gapped anyway), c) sell them off with a chunk of life left and get the other nation to pay for a Mid life refit in UK yards, which is why they were built with a 20 year life span.

    As for the River's would they even be able to undertake the CPV role, given they are much more OPV's?

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  7. #980
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    RN have been poor on ship design since forever. They have gone through nine frigate types since 1946, average life about 7 years.
    You have to look at why the RN went through so many ship designs and it wasn't a design issue in relation the frigate types but change in technology and role, and then throw in cutbacks in various programs.

    I would suggest reading the following for enlightenment and given D.K. Brown is the author and has been primary in ship design in the RN for many years it is quite educational.

    https://www.amazon.com/Rebuilding-Ro.../dp/1848321503
    Last edited by hptmurphy; 26th April 2017 at 13:40.
    Time for another break I think......

  8. #981
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    Being built to Llyods standard ( commercial ) means the fabric and scantlings of your ship is stronger and will last longer that lightly built naval vessels. the flight deck on P31 is 25% stronger than a similar deck on a frigate. The militarised cost is the fit out to Standardised Agreements- STANAG - for your Naval packages in electronics, EMI, and weapons fit.

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  10. #982
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    Since the emergence of the Destroyer and turbine ( fast ships ) propulsion the biggest influence on RN design has been operational effects of severe weather, such as high bows, decent bridge sizes, carrying superstructure out to the sides of the ship, and generally keeping people dry.

  11. #983
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    But doesn't Lloyds standards mean poorer standards of DCFF etc?

  12. #984
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    It does not. They have high standards of one hour durability on all escape routes and around all compartments housing electronics and other heat sources. Within the ship you can specify requirements such as two adjacent compartments floodability, plus operational with basic speed 13/14 knots with either engineroom flooded. You can also be systems operational with both engine rooms flooded but stationary. LLyods durability standards are higher and also gives full insurance for first year of Builders and outfitters guarantees.

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  14. #985
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    Back to the topic at hand, Earlier last week, a number of the current crew of Eithne made a request to their family and friends for donations of toys for the possible refugees they expect to encounter on their tour in the Med. Today came the news that they had reached their target, and did not not require any more.
    The generousity of the irish people, and th edefence forces family at large, knows no boundaries.
    http://extra.ie/news/irish-news/the-...gn=ExtraSocial
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

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  16. #986
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    Well done. A good start is half the required effort. we look forward to the Mediterranean News and photos.

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  18. #987
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    It seems the Mediterranean is currently on deferment , due to paperwork problems between Irish and Italian Govts. We seem , these days , to be run by the "F" class of officials.

  19. #988
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Also a problem with paperwork for a CASA bringing RBS70s to Sweden.

    What's the bets someone was on leave

  20. #989
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    anybody know the nature of said paperwork?

  21. #990
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Also a problem with paperwork for a CASA bringing RBS70s to Sweden.

    What's the bets someone was on leave
    What's the bets that the person is trying to cover 6 appointments, 3 of which are of a higher rank with no substitution allowances

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  23. #991
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    Quote Originally Posted by TangoSierra View Post
    What's the bets that the person is trying to cover 6 appointments, 3 of which are of a higher rank with no substitution allowances
    Would it be within the DF or Foreign Affairs for arranging this type of "paperwork"?

  24. #992
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    If the countries involved were very keen on the projects etc matters would be sorted without a fuss.

  25. #993
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  27. #994
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    It would normally be Dept. of FA through the Embassy in Italy and possibly through EU channels as Op Pontus is an EU effort to save lives. The whole system on our side seems to be unravelling in that it would be obvious at the conclusion of one mission the following mission should have been set up as regards forecasting dates for recommencment, also with a prior mission conference and clearance some weeks before kick off. It is usual to know , where , when , how, and for whom before preparing for any long range mission. I,m disappointed that we revert to stereotype in the eyes of our co-professionals. Typical No Passport and NO Ticket.
    Last edited by ancientmariner; 6th May 2017 at 10:18.

  28. #995
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    Strange how the NS have been planning for this operation for many months, even the crew spouses and partners getting involved in collecting toys for potential refugees, yet a long way up the chain, there is this failure.
    Shocking, but unsurprising, when we are dealing with a government who are more interested in Handing over state funded hospitals to Nuns, and making sure all elected officials attend the dail to pray, whether they believe in that particular faith or not.

    Backwards we are going.
    German 1: Private Schnutz, I have bad news for you.
    German 2: Private? I am a general!
    German 1: That is the bad news.

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  30. #996
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    It must be fairly significant if it could not be sorted whilst the unit is in transit/open waters.

    This wont help;

    https://openmigration.org/en/analyse...d-news-at-all/
    Last edited by danno; 6th May 2017 at 12:43.

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  32. #997
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    It would normally be Dept. of FA through the Embassy in Italy and possibly through EU channels as Op Pontus is an EU effort to save lives. The whole system on our side seems to be unravelling in that it would be obvious at the conclusion of one mission the following mission should have been set up as regards forecasting dates for recommencment, also with a prior mission conference and clearance some weeks before kick off. It is usual to know , where , when , how, and for whom before preparing for any long range mission. I,m disappointed that we revert to stereotype in the eyes of our co-professionals. Typical No Passport and NO Ticket.
    Assuming that the documents have to flow DF-DOD-DFA

  33. #998
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Assuming that the documents have to flow DF-DOD-DFA
    My guess is Op Pontus hq- Italian Govt. FA -Irish DFA-Irish Govt.-DOD-and COS for implementation. Presume previous agreement exists, so just rubber stamping and an agreed commencement date.

  34. #999
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    This is a problem solely caused by DOD. Be very clear on that.

    Quote Originally Posted by TangoSierra View Post
    What's the bets that the person is trying to cover 6 appointments, 3 of which are of a higher rank with no substitution allowances

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  36. #1000
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogwatch View Post
    This is a problem solely caused by DOD. Be very clear on that.
    Clarity not obvious but somebody some where has the answer. Maybe some "beancounter" won't clear the budget for the 2017 mission until the Italians pay up, or something equally charming.

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