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  1. #1001
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmití View Post
    Strange how the NS have been planning for this operation for many months, even the crew spouses and partners getting involved in collecting toys for potential refugees, yet a long way up the chain, there is this failure.
    Shocking, but unsurprising, when we are dealing with a government who are more interested in Handing over state funded hospitals to Nuns, and making sure all elected officials attend the dail to pray, whether they believe in that particular faith or not.

    Backwards we are going.
    Government employ people of average intelligence to look after this low grade clerical stuff.
    Governments should now step in and sack/promote them side ways the nob who messed up.
    Last edited by sofa; 6th May 2017 at 16:03.

  2. #1002
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    Quote Originally Posted by sofa View Post
    Government employ people of average intelligence to look after this low grade clerical stuff.
    Governments should now step in and sack/promote them side ways the nob who messed up.
    Be under no illusion here. The people of average intelligence of whom you speak are writing to you on this forum. They are not to blame. They have managers with degrees, diplomas and all other forms of decorative paper who are there to ensure the job is done. Their job is guided directly by the minister and his staff who are earning 10 times what the people of average intelligence are earning. This is where the fault lies.
    Well, there's good news and bad news. The bad news is that Neil will be taking over both branches, and some of you will lose your jobs. Those of you who are kept on will have to relocate to Swindon, if you wanna stay. I know, gutting. On a more positive note, the good news is, I've been promoted, so... every cloud. You're still thinking about the bad news aren't you?

  3. #1003
    Chief Casey Ryback
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    Diplomas , education is no substitute for intelligence .
    Don't spit in my Bouillabaisse .

  4. #1004
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    Planning. Chicken or Egg?

    Quote Originally Posted by Laners View Post
    Diplomas , education is no substitute for intelligence .
    Within a continually operational unit, such as a navy with ships at sea , there has to be an oversight Operational Guidance and Analysis system, capable of managing everything to do with ships, for both their employment and deployment schedules. Somebody outside the Navy must have green lighted the original departure scheduled for the 1st May and again someone outside the Navy must have deferred or stopped the Mission. It is at the very least embarrassing and unprofessional. The question is " Who has the authority to declare go "and then obviously that person said don't Go!!

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  6. #1005
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  7. #1006
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    Clarity

    Quote Originally Posted by danno View Post
    In Naval terms Operational Clarity means that any ship undertaking a mission is issued with "Rules of Engagement" backed up with Operational Guidance on levels of response in "Hot" situations. Overlying all that are SOLAS Rules , UNCLOS, plus Rules on use of Force in times of "Peace". Suffice it to say such matters are covered extensively in Major Naval Colleges and major navies issue their ships with ROE Manuals. Such Rules and enforcement guidelines are the responsibility of Government, as is said "no one else has the authority to Defend or Wage War.

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  9. #1007
    Moderator DeV's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by danno View Post
    Sounds clear cut to me

    Obviously Rome disagrees with Dublin

  10. #1008
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    I.m not sure of all the facts or thought processes but it seems the ship latterly got involved perhaps when the SOLAS element overrode other considerations. If we were in the Naval Group in Operation Sophia we would have had the collective Defence of that organisation on all tasks.

  11. #1009
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    Safety of the ship first surely but having said that if no active threat

  12. #1010
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    Saw this online on Saturday and meant to post it, but got busy with stuff.

    It gives a bit more detail, but it is the Sun..............

    https://www.thesun.ie/news/990143/i-...h-saw-200-die/

  13. #1011
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    Safety of the ship first surely but having said that if no active threat
    given the ISTAR 'capabilities' of the P60 class, how would the captain have been able to judge whether there was an active threat or not?

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  15. #1012
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    If we were in the Naval Group in Operation Sophia we would have had the collective Defence of that organisation on all tasks.
    being a member of an organisation doesn't stop Artillery shells or ATGW - the only thing that has a chance of stopping such an attack is either having defensive capability or being next to something with that capability. it also relies on being well trained/drilled in reacting to such a threat and the actions required to mitigate such a threat. was there a vessel with those defensive capabilities immediately on hand to provide cover?

    do the NS ships in the Med do counter-missile drills and do emergency action exercises, and then follow Italian doctrine with the other vessels operating there before they get close to the Libyan coast, or does that just go in the 'oh, it'll be all right..' box?

  16. #1013
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    They seem to work alongside MSF ships rather than other naval or coastguard assets.
    The ship may be grey but the ROE might not be.
    Well, there's good news and bad news. The bad news is that Neil will be taking over both branches, and some of you will lose your jobs. Those of you who are kept on will have to relocate to Swindon, if you wanna stay. I know, gutting. On a more positive note, the good news is, I've been promoted, so... every cloud. You're still thinking about the bad news aren't you?

  17. #1014
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    Purely by Radar and monitoring chatter on VHF/UHF channels. Italians should also be able to provide a daily Aerial Sweep of offshore Libya and say if there were any suspect belligerent craft in the area. Safety of Life at Sea is usually the strongest driver to aiding those in peril on the sea.

  18. #1015
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    Quote Originally Posted by na grohmití View Post
    They seem to work alongside MSF ships rather than other naval or coastguard assets.
    The ship may be grey but the ROE might not be.
    Mainly because the other vessels aren't there purely on a humanitarian mission

  19. #1016
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    This is not very complimentary of the Italian coastguard;

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7724156.html

  20. #1017
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    It is currently a double headed mission designated Operation Pontus made up of ships providing a floating bridge from Middle East/ North Africa to mainly Italy. The more Naval element is Operation Sophia providing an ISTAR approach to curtail the migration by impeding it at source and on sea where possible. They can detain traffickers , sink seized craft,and also aid where rescue capacity needs augmentation.

  21. #1018
    Space Lord of Terra morpheus's Avatar
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    What sensors does Eithne actually have left now? Ive been after this bone in another thread... i believed that over the years as her sensor suite components became obsolete that , for the most part, they were removed and not replaced, bar the obvious ones?
    "He is an enemy officer taken in battle and entitled to fair treatment."
    "No, sir. He's a sergeant, and they don't deserve no respect at all, sir. I should know. They're cunning and artful, if they're any good. I wouldn't mind if he was an officer, sir. But sergeants are clever."

  22. #1019
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancientmariner View Post
    It is currently a double headed mission designated Operation Pontus made up of ships providing a floating bridge from Middle East/ North Africa to mainly Italy. The more Naval element is Operation Sophia providing an ISTAR approach to curtail the migration by impeding it at source and on sea where possible. They can detain traffickers , sink seized craft,and also aid where rescue capacity needs augmentation.
    What do you mean by "double headed"?

  23. #1020
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeV View Post
    What do you mean by "double headed"?
    he means two-pronged.

    PONTUS is the TV friendly stuff the NS is doing, SOPHIA is the less tv friendly stuff that everyone who doesn't want 300,000 north african migrants piling into their countries every year is doing...

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  25. #1021
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    PONTUS and EUNAVFOR MED/SOPHIA are 2 completely different missions.

    One is exclusively Irish (based on a MOU with the Italians I think) with an exclusively humanitarian mandate to rescue refugees from a dangerous journey as distressed mariners

    SOPHIA is a EU mission which part of a comprehensive EU approach to stopping people smuggling, training Libyian personnel and enforcing the arms embargo on Libya.

    Ireland is not a participant in SOPHIA (although no doubt they liase/deconflict with it)
    Last edited by DeV; 17th May 2017 at 14:20.

  26. #1022
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    Yeah it's a ferry service. The countries below should be the only mobs involved as they participated in the Libyan Airshow sorry I mean operation let's create another Somalia on Europe's doorstep.

    NATO

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    Everyone who's ever loved you was wrong.

  27. #1023
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    Maybe it wasn't as clear cut as we taught

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/poli...86296?mode=amp

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  29. #1024
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    So Italy doesn't want us to pick and choose which refugees we take? Surprising considering so many illegal eh immigrants entered using fake Italian identity documents.
    Well, there's good news and bad news. The bad news is that Neil will be taking over both branches, and some of you will lose your jobs. Those of you who are kept on will have to relocate to Swindon, if you wanna stay. I know, gutting. On a more positive note, the good news is, I've been promoted, so... every cloud. You're still thinking about the bad news aren't you?

  30. #1025
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    Reports in the Indo that Eithne will leave tomorrow for operations:
    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news...-35741787.html

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